Rucker Comparisons

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dbhguru
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Re: Rucker Comparisons

Post by dbhguru » Wed May 13, 2020 8:55 pm

Bryan,

We have a lot more Massachusetts sites than those listed. I’ll post them in the next few days to keep your good work rolling. BTW, the WP for MTSF is 176.2 feet now.

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

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bbeduhn
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Re: Rucker Comparisons

Post by bbeduhn » Thu May 14, 2020 3:02 pm

North Carolina

Individual sites

Barkers Creek east/Middle Forks, Haywood Co, Nantahala NF
Mountains
Measurers: Jess Riddle, Will Blozan, Brian Beduhn 2011-2012
R10 = 143.22'
R5 = 152.24'

1. tuliptree 184.5'
2. white pine 147.1'
3. white basswood 146.4'
4. cucumbertree 143.3'
5. red oak 139.9'
6. white ash 139.8'
7. black locust 137.7'
8. chestnut oak 134.4'
9. black cherry 132.6'
10. mockernut hickory 126.5'

Foothills Tr/Musterground Rd coves, Jocassee Gorges
Mountains
Measurer: Brian Beduhn 2018
R10 = 141.10'
R5 = 150.56'

1. tuliptree 177.6'
2. white pine 163.7'
3. black locust 140.3'
4. Biltmore ash 138.1'
5. sweetgum 136.9'
6. white oak 136.5'
7. red maple 130.4'
8. pignut hickory 130.3'
9. beech 129.5'
10. red oak 127.7'

Armstrong Creek, McDowell Co, Pisgah NF
Mountains
Measurer: Brian Beduhn 2019
R10 = 140.63'
R5 = 149.34'

1. white pine 170.3'
2. tuliptree 153.5'
3. chestnut oak 142.2'
4. bitternut hickory 140.6'
5. red oak 139.8'
6. sycamore 135.0'
7. white oak 133.1'
8. pignut hickory 132.4'
9. black oak 130.7'
10. mockernut hickory 128.4'

Tanglewood, Clemmons
Piedmont
R10 = 139.63'
R5 = 146.08'

1. tuliptree 160.4'
2. red oak 148.3'
3. pignut hickory 142.1'
4. shumard oak 140.7'
5. scarlet oak 138.9'
6. white ash 137.5'
7. shagbark hickory 135.7'
8. white oak 132.8'
9. sweetgum 131.4'
10. sycamore 128.5'

Biltmore Estate, Asheville
Mountains
Measurers: Will Blozan, James Parton, Robert Van Pelt, Brian Beduhn, Michael Davie, 2004, 2008, 2012-2020
R20 = 132.73'
R10 = 139.45'
R5 = 147.16'

1. white pine 161.3'
2. sycamore 150.0'
3. hemlock 144.2'
4. tuliptree 143.4'
5. larch sp 136.9'
6. baldcypress 135.0'
7. scarlet oak 132.2'
8. red oak 130.8'
9. pignut hickory 130.7'
10. dawn redwood 130.4'

11. Norway spruce 130.0'
12. chestnut oak 129.2'
13. white ash 128.7'
14. Tilia tomentosa 127.9'
15. walnut 124.7'
16. laevis elm 124.0'
17. mockernut hickory 122.7'
18. Am basswood 120.0'
18. shortleaf pine 120.0'
20. Oriental spruce 119.0'

Guilford Woods, Greensboro
Piedmont
Measurer: Brian Beduhn
R10 = 134.59'
R5 = 144.56'

1. tuliptree 155.1'
2. pignut hickory 145.2'
3. red oak 143.3'
4. sweetgum 142.4'
5. white oak 136.8'
6. so. red oak 128.7'
7. beech 126.6'
8. sycamore 123.6'
9. black oak 123.5'
10. mockernut hickory 120.7'

Mountains-to-Sea Trail, 74A to Hendersonville Rd, Asheville
Mountains
Measurer: Brian Beduhn
R10 = 133.01'
R5 + 140.12'

1. white pine 158.5'
2. tuliptree 142.1'
3. chestnut oak 135.4'
4. red oak 132.4'
5. white oak 132.2'
6. Biltmore ash 130.6'
7. red hickory 129.4'
8. black locust 127.1'
9. scarlet oak 125.4'
10. shortleaf pine 117.4'

Cove Creek/Bradley Falls, Henderson Co
Mountains
Measurer: Brian Beduhn 2016, 2018
R10 = 132.12'
R5 = 138.26'

1. tuliptree 151.1'
2. white pine 139.1'
3. black locust 134.4'
4. white oak 134.0'
5. hemlock 132.7'
6. red oak 132.2'
7. black oak 126.8'
8. pignut hickory id? 125.4'
9. cucumbertree 123.9'
10. mockernut hickory 121.6'

Azalea Park/WNC Nature Center, Asheville
Mountains
Measurers: Brian Beduhn, Will Blozan
R10 = 129.79'
R5 = 135.84'

1. tuliptree 144.2'
2. pignut hickory 139.4'
3. white oak 133.2'
4. sycamore 131.5'
5. Biltmore ash 130.9'
5. red oak 130.9'
7. scarlet oak 128.3'
8. mockernut hickory 126.3'
9. black oak 119.0'
10. black cherry 114.2'

Rattlesnake Cove, Blue Ridge Parkway, Asheville
Mountains
Measurer: Brian Beduhn
R10 = 128.75'
R5 = 137.24'

1. tuliptree 163.0'
2. red oak 133.4'
3. black oak 131.4'
4. white oak 129.6'
5. white ash 128.8'
6. red hickory 126.6'
7. black cherry 122.6'
8. walnut 120.3'
9. scarlet oak 118.9'
10. mockernut hickory 112.9'

Greensboro Watershed, Greensboro
Piedmont
Measurer: Brian Beduhn
R10 = 128.49'
R5 = 133.86'

1. tuliptree 146.5'
2. white oak 132.2'
3. pignut hickory 131.2'
4. sycamore 130.2'
5. red oak 129.2'
6. loblolly pine 129.1'
7. sweetgum 127.7'
8. shortleaf pine 121.7'
9. black oak 119.6'
10. so red oak 117.5'

Guilford Courthouse, Greensboro
Piedmont
Measurer: Brian Beduhn
R10 = 124.99'
R5 = 131.34'

1. red oak 136.8'
2. tuliptree 135.8'
3. sycamore 135.4'
4. loblolly pine 124.6'
5. pignut hickory 124.1'
6. white oak 120.9'
7. so shagbark hickory 120.5'
8. bitternut hickory 118.4'
9. sweetgum 117.5'
10. Virginia pine 115.9'

WNC Arboretum entrance, mouth of Bent Creek
Mountains
Measurer: Brian Beduhn
R10 = 125.25'
R5 = 134.30'

1. loblolly pine 138.2'
2. tuliptree 137.3'
3. red hickory 134.8'
4. white pine 132.3'
5. dawn redwood 128.9'
6. sycamore 127.1'
7. white oak 121.1'
8. white basswood 120.5'
9. pitch pine 108.0'
10. Virginia pine 104.3'

King Creek, Pisgah NF, Brevard
Mountains
Measurer: Jess Riddle
R5 + 145.56'

1. tuliptree 170.8'
2. red oak 143.7'
3. white basswood 142.2'
4. sycamore 138.7'
5. chestnut oak 132.4'


Wesser Creek, Nantahala NF
Mountains
Measurer: Michael Davie
R5 = 144.48'

1. tuliptree 173.9
2. white basswood 147.0'
3. yellow buckeye 141.0'
4. red oak 132.8'
5. sycamore 127.7'

Foothills Trail & Toxaway River, Gorges St Pk
Mountains
Measurers: Brian Beduhn & Will Blozan
R5 = 140.52'

1. tuliptree 169.0'
2. white pine 145.7'
3. black locust 135.0'
4. shortleaf pine 126.7'
5. pitch pine 126.2'

Jarrett Creek, Pisgah NF, McDowell Co
Mountains
Measurer: Brian Beduhn
R5 = 137.04'

1. tuliptree 146.8'
2. sycamore 137.0'
3. white pine 135.6'
4. red oak 133.5'
5. white oak 132.3'

Mountains-to-Sea Trail, Hendersonville Rd to I-26
Mountains
Measurer: Brian Beduhn 2012-2020
R5 = 128.80'

1. white pine 150.0'
2. pitch pine 124.8'
3. shortleaf pine 124.6'
4. pignut hickory 123.0'
5. scarlet oak 121.6'
Last edited by bbeduhn on Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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dbhguru
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Re: Rucker Comparisons

Post by dbhguru » Thu May 14, 2020 6:34 pm

Ents,

I'm going to follow Brian's lead and begin posting RHIs from here in Massachusetts.

Site: Northampton, MA

Species Height

White Pine 144.5
Tuliptree 140.5
A. sycamore 125.5
Pignut hickory 120.0
E. Hemlock 119.5
N. red oak 118.5
Black locust 116.0
E. cottonwood 115.0
Pin oak 113.5

RHI = 123.4

Site: Monroe State Forest (best of my records)

Species Height

White Pine 160.1
White ash 135.7
E. hemlock 125.0
Bigtooth aspen 124.8
Sugar maple 124.7
N. red oak 119.9
Black cherry 113.5
Red spruce 112.0
Red maple 110.0
Yellow birch 102.0

RHI = 122.8
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

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bbeduhn
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Re: Rucker Comparisons

Post by bbeduhn » Fri May 15, 2020 3:18 pm

Great Smoky Mountains National Park

This is the granddaddy of eastern sites. Many numbers are quite out of date. A fair amount of Big Creek has been updated recently, but much more work needs to be done. I'm primarily posting composite indices for the major watersheds. Several watersheds do not have enough posted numbers to create a Rucker Index. Deep Creek holds both the tallest known tuliptree and red spruce, yet I cannot find enough numbers for even an R5. Be forewarned, if you aren't aware of the numbers in the Smokies, well, they're simply eyepopping! The R20 numbers top most R5s.

Cataloochee, NC
Measurers: Will Blozan, Michael Davie,Jess Riddle, Josh Kelly, Bob Leverett, Brian Beduhn mid 1990's - 2018
R20 = 144.71'
R10 = 159.92'
R5 = 173.90'

1. white pine 207.0' R
2. tuliptree 177.6'
3. hemlock 173.4' R
4. white ash 163.0'
5. shagbark hickory 148.5'
6. white oak 147.4'
7. white basswood 147.0'
8. bitternut hickory 146.4'
9. cucumbertree 145.0'
10. yellow buckeye 143.9'

11. red spruce 142.1'
12. chestnut oak 141.9'
13. red oak 140.9'
14. red maple 138.2'
15. black locust 129.9'
16. sycamore 128.5'
17. sugar maple 126.2'
18. mtn silverbell 118.5'
19. black gum 114.9'
20. black birch 114.0'

Big Creek, NC
Measurers: Will Blozan, Michael Davie, Jess Riddle, Brian Beduhn, Bob Leverett, Josh Kelly 2002-2020
R20 = 150.04'
R10 = 159.42'
R5 = 167.40'

1. tuliptree 186.1'
2. white ash 167.1' R
3. sycamore 165.5' R
4. black locust 162.0'
5. bitternut hickory 156.3'
6. red oak 155.7'
7. cucumbertree 151.9'
8. white pine 150.3'
8. white basswood 150.3'
10. hemlock 149.0'


11. sweetgum 147.9'
12. sugar maple 144.2'
13. yellow buckeye 143.1'
13. chestnut oak 143.1'
15. red maple 142.4'
16. Biltmore ash 141.7'
17. mtn silverbell 138.6' R
18. black oak 138.4'
19. red elm 135.0'
20. black cherry 132.2'

Oconaluftee
Measurers: Will Blozan, Jess Riddle, Michael Davie, Josh Kelly, Brian Beduhn
R20 = 142.89'
R10 = 156.12''
R5 = 165.42'

1. tuliptree 188.0'
2. black locust 171.8' R
3. hemlock 156.2'
4. sycamore 155.8'
5. red spruce 155.3' R?
6. Biltmore ash 148.6'
7. white ash 147.8'
8. cucumbertree 146.8'
9. white basswood 146.6'
10. red oak 144.3'

11. beech 142.8'
12. black cherry 140.9'
13. yellow buckeye 139.1'
14. pignut hickory 137.4'
15. chestnut oak 134.7'
16. white oak 130.9'
17. black oak 129.7'
18. sugar maple 126.1'
19. black birch 110.2'
20. Am serviceberry 104.9' R


Elkmont (Little River)
Measurers: Will Blozan, Jess Riddle, Michael Davie, Josh Kelly
R10 = 153.98'
R5 = 162.12'

1. tuliptree 184.9'
2. Biltmore ash 162.2' R
3. bitternut hickory 160.1'
4. sycamore 154.7'
5. white basswood 151.0'
6. red oak 148.4'
7. black cherry 146.2' R?
8. cucumbertree 145.0'
9. yellow buckeye 144.1'
10. red maple 143.2' R?



Greenbrier
Measurers: Michael Davie, Will Blozan, jess Riddle, Josh Kelly, Bob Leverett, Brian Beduhn
R20 = 135.46'
R10 = 150.46'
R5 = 159.94'

1. tuliptree 173.4'
2. hemlock 165.9'
3. yellow buckeye 157.3'
4. black locust 152.1'
5. sugar maple 151.0' R
6. black cherry 146.0
7. white ash 143.5'
8. bitternut hickory 142.9'
9. white basswood 137.1'
10. sycamore 135.4'

11. red maple 134.9'
12. red oak 133.4'
13. walnut 128.5'
14. mtn silverbell 125.8'
15. fraser magnolia 117.5'
16. red hickory 116.5'
17. beech 114.5'
18. black gum 112.1'
19. black birch 111.1'
20. chestnut oak 110.4'


Abrams Creek
Measurers: Michael Davie, Will Blozan
RHI 10 = 148.81'
RHI 5 = 159.96'

1. white pine 175.0'
2. hemlock 163.8'
3. tuliptree 160.1'
4. pignut hickory 151.4'
5. shagbark hickory 149.5'
6. shortleaf pine 149.2'
7. chestnut oak 144.4'
8. sycamore 137.2'
9. pitch pine 135.4'
10. beech 122.1'


Bradley Fork/Chasteen Creek (Oconaluftee)
Measurers: Will Blozan, Jess Riddle, Michael Davie, Josh Kelly, Brian Beduhn
R10 = 147.08'
R5 = 158.18'
1. tuliptree 188.0'
2. black locust 171.8'
3. white ash 147.8'
4. white basswood 142.3'
5. red oak 141.0
6. black cherry 140.9'
7. Biltmore ash 139.5'
8. chestnut oak 134.7'
9. cucumbertree 133.9'
10. white oak 130.9'


Cosby
Measurers: Jess Riddle, Michael Davie, Brian Beduhn
RHI 10 = 135.84'
RHI 5 = 144.92'

1. hemlock 156.8'
2. tuliptree 154.1'
3. walnut 144.3'
4. yellow buckeye 135.1'
5. bitternut hickory 134.3'
6. white basswood 130.6'
7. white ash 129.2'
8. sugar maple 128.4'
9. beech 124.7'
10. sycamore 120.9'


Forney Creek (Welch Branch)
Measurers: Will Blozan, Michael Davie, Josh Kelly, Brian Beduhn
RHI 10 = 135.67'
RHI 5 = 150.06'

1. tuliptree 188.4'
2. red oak 156.3'
3. white pine 142.6'
4. black locust 133.0'
5. red maple 130.0'
6. sycamore 129.2'
7. shortleaf pine 125.5'
8. white oak 124.1'
9. bitternut hickory 120.0'
10. black birch 107.6'

Sugarlands (Cove Hardwood Trail)
Measurers: Jess Riddle, Michael Davie, Brian Beduhn
RHI 10 = 132.68'
RHI 5 = 143.32'

1. tuliptree 148.1'
2. bitternut hickory 147.5'
3. yellow buckeye 146.5'
4. sugar maple 141.5'
5. black locust 133.0'
6. Biltmore ash 131.9'
7. white basswood 128.3'
8. black cherry 122.4'
9. red oak 121.9'
10. silverbell 106.5'


Deep Creek (obviously undermeasured but numbers likely exist, just not published)
Measurers: Josh Kelly, Will Blozan, Jess Riddle
RHI 5 = 149.60'

1. tuliptree 191.9' R
2. red spruce 155.3' R
3. hemlock 140+
4. cucumbertree 139.6'
5. yellow buckeye 123.9'
6. red oak 120.1'
7. sourwood 111.7' R
Last edited by bbeduhn on Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:49 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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dbhguru
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Re: Rucker Comparisons

Post by dbhguru » Sat May 16, 2020 10:36 am

Ents

More from the Bay State.

The second highest RHI in MA is Ice Glen in Stockbridge. Here it is as current as I can make it.

Species Height

White Pine 160.2. (Jared Lockwood)
White ash 140.3
E. hemlock 136.7
Shagbark Hickory 135.5
Black Cherry 121.4
A. Elm 121.0
A. Basswood 117.5
N. red oak 114.1
Sugar Maple 110.4
Red maple 109.3

RHI 126.6

I just updated the RHI of Broad Brook, which is basically our backyard.

Species Height

White Pine 141.5
Tuliptree 131.2
Pignut Hickory 121.0
E. Hemlock 119.5
N. Red Oak 119.2
W. Ash 113.0
Sugar Maple 110.0
Black Birch 108.0
Black oak 107.1
White Oak 105.2

RHI = 117.6

There are more coming. Most will be contributed by John Eichholz or yours truly.

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

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dbhguru
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Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:34 pm

Re: Rucker Comparisons

Post by dbhguru » Sat May 16, 2020 5:34 pm

Ents,

Today Jared Lockwood and I went up stream on little Broad Brook to update the sites RHI.
Screen Shot 2020-05-16 at 6.26.10 PM.png
This is basically our backyard. I expect that we can improve on white oak and maybe white ash. Oh yes, the pignut hickory noe has a name. It's Miss Piggy.

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

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a_blooming_botanist
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2016 10:09 pm

Re: Rucker Comparisons

Post by a_blooming_botanist » Mon May 18, 2020 3:21 pm

Brian,

Nice work mining the site for data and calculating site Rucker indices! Here's what I can contribute from eastern MA, which consists of measurements from last year as well as some updated measurements from earlier this year.

Shepley Hill, Groton, MA

RH10 = 114.1'

1. White pine 131.8'
2. Pignut hickory 124.8'
3. Shagbark hickory 117.4'
4. Eastern hemlock 116.7'
5. White ash 113.3'
6. Pitch pine 110.6'
7. Sugar maple 108.2'
8. Northern red oak 107.5'
9. Bitternut hickory 105.8'
10. Black birch 104.8'

Jared

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bbeduhn
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Re: Rucker Comparisons

Post by bbeduhn » Tue May 19, 2020 9:14 am

Bob and Jared,
Thanks for adding some numbers. I'll move them to the Massachusetts page so they'll all be together.
Brian

Bob,
Northampton seems to be missing one species.

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dbhguru
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Re: Rucker Comparisons

Post by dbhguru » Fri May 22, 2020 6:34 pm

Brian,

Here is Look Park, Northampton, MA. A little out of date, but I'll bring it up to the present soon.
Screen Shot 2020-05-22 at 7.32.13 PM.png

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

User avatar
bbeduhn
Posts: 1139
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:23 pm

Re: Rucker Comparisons

Post by bbeduhn » Tue May 26, 2020 12:37 pm

And now for the fun part, the rankings will begin.

I'm not familiar with too many of the Northeast sites so some larger and smaller ones may get lumped together. There aren't many high Rucker indices for the Midwest so I'm putting them with the Northeast for the time being.

Northeast/ Midwest Region

1. Wissahickan, Fairmount Park, PA

RHI 10 = 144.85'
RHI 5 = 153.66'

2. Zoar Valley, NY

RHI 10 = 144.76'
RHI 5 = 153.50'

3. Cuyahoga Valley NP, OH

RHI 10 = 144.13'
RHI 5 = 153.50'

4. Letchworth St Pk, NY

RHI 10 = 143.01'
RHI 5 = 148.70'

5. Fair Hill, MD

RHI 10 = 142.34'
RHI 5 = 148.98'

'6. Holly River St Pk, WV

RHI 10 = 141.42'
RHI 5 = 149.70'

7. Brandywine Creek, DE

RHI 10 = 140.62'
RHI 5 = 148.70'

8. California Woods, OH

RHI 10 = 140.18'
RHI 5 = 148.00'

9. Rickett's Glen, PA

RHI 10 = 139.52'
RHI 5 = 148.58'

10. White Clay Ck Res, PA

RHI 10 = 139.38'
RHI 5 = 146.76'

11. Ridley Creek, PA

RHI 10 = 139.35'
RHI 5 = 144.32'

12. Cook Forest

RHI 10 = 137.15'
RHI 5 = 147.20'

13. Hocking Hills St Pk, OH

RHI 10 = 136.91'
RHI 5 = 149.32'

14. Smedley Park, PA

RHI 10 = 135.23'
RHI 5 = 141.36'

15. Mohawk Trail, MA

RHI 10 = 134.97'
RHI 5 = 144.72'

16. Fisher Old Growth, NY

RHI 10 = 134.42'
RHI 5 = 142.48'

17. North Chagrin Res

RHI 10 = 133.85'
RHI 5 = 140.26'

18. Winterthur, DE

RHI 10 = 133.37'
RHI 5 = 143.60'

19. Laurels Preserve, PA

RHI 10 = 131.79'
RHI 5 = 141.30'

20. Ohiopyle St Pk, PA

RHI 10 = 130.87'
RHI 5 = 135.96'

20. Donaldsons Woods, IN

RHI 10 = 130.87'
RHI 5 = 139.94'

22. Pioneer Mothers, IN

RHI 10 = 130.85'
RHI 5 = 136.32'
Last edited by bbeduhn on Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:59 am, edited 2 times in total.

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