NTS,
I thought I’d share a preliminary report on this site because it shows tremendous potential for diversity of tree species, overall forest age, and of course, tree size. Due to the main gorge trails being temporarily closed, I made all measurements from the parking lot. The cacophony of nearby jackhammers made the experience delightful.
Topographically, the area I’m referencing is a steep hillside (south-facing, I believe) at the mouth of a gorge. Hickories (Red & Shagbark) are dominant here, along with White Oak. The shelter provided by the high gorge walls give the feeling of a southern cove forest.
Anyways, here’s what I found today:
White Pine
143.4’
127.7’
Tuliptree
140.2’
132.6’
American Basswood
130.1’
Red Hickory
130.0’
115.6’
American Sycamore
121.0’
White Oak
119.2’
Eastern Hemlock
118.3’
Northern Red Oak
117.8’
Shagbark Hickory
116.0’
White Ash
111.9’
Black Oak
111.2’
Rucker 10: 124+
Elijah
Robert H. Treman State Park
Robert H. Treman State Park
"There is nothing in the world to equal the forest as nature made it. The finest formal forest, the most magnificent artificially grown woods, cannot compare with the grandeur of primeval woodland." Bob Marshall, Recreational Limitations to Silviculture in the Adirondacks
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Erik Danielsen
- Posts: 857
- Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:46 pm
Re: Robert H. Treman State Park
You got all of that just from the parking lot?! I thought that park looked interesting from aerial images but wasn't expecting that! Seems like a definite 130+ RHI10 potential site. Awesome first report!
Re: Robert H. Treman State Park
Thanks Erik. Mounted on a stable surface, the Trupulse performs incredibly well at a distance. As long as you can clearly make out tops and bottoms of the same trees, you’re good to go. I don’t know what the rest of the park looks like tree-wise, but this is a good start. Supposedly, Red Pine grows at the top of the gorge, similar to Letchworth. We’ll see.
Elijah
Elijah
"There is nothing in the world to equal the forest as nature made it. The finest formal forest, the most magnificent artificially grown woods, cannot compare with the grandeur of primeval woodland." Bob Marshall, Recreational Limitations to Silviculture in the Adirondacks
Re: Robert H. Treman State Park
NTS, Erik,
I made a second trip to Treman this weekend, looking to measure a few more trees I didn't have time for. The sign at the entrance to the closed gorge trail stated that it's not expected to re-open until the end of May, so I don't think I'll return until then. This area next to the parking lot may be the best for tall trees anyway, though there's no way to tell until I see the remainder of the park.
Additional trees measured:
White Oak
123.1'
Bitternut Hickory
122.4'
Bigtooth Aspen
116.0'
Black Walnut
110.4'
Elijah Whitcomb
I made a second trip to Treman this weekend, looking to measure a few more trees I didn't have time for. The sign at the entrance to the closed gorge trail stated that it's not expected to re-open until the end of May, so I don't think I'll return until then. This area next to the parking lot may be the best for tall trees anyway, though there's no way to tell until I see the remainder of the park.
Additional trees measured:
White Oak
123.1'
Bitternut Hickory
122.4'
Bigtooth Aspen
116.0'
Black Walnut
110.4'
Elijah Whitcomb
"There is nothing in the world to equal the forest as nature made it. The finest formal forest, the most magnificent artificially grown woods, cannot compare with the grandeur of primeval woodland." Bob Marshall, Recreational Limitations to Silviculture in the Adirondacks
Re: Robert H. Treman State Park
NTS,
I returned to Robert Treman SP this afternoon, and was able to finish the survey I started a while back. While I didn’t find any life-changing lunkers, I was rewarded with a wonderfully diverse collection of trees, shrubs, and flowers within the gorge.
As with other similar Finger Lakes gorges, oaks (White, Black, and Chestnut) and hickories (Red and Pignut) dominate the upper rims. Tuliptrees, Hemlocks, White Pines, Shagbark Hickories, and Red and Sugar Maples are common on the steep slopes. The gorge bottom is loaded with Sycamores, Black and Yellow Birch, and to a lesser extent, White Ash. Red Oak and Basswood are found at every level of the ecosystem.
The wet, cool walls of the gorge provide shelter for Hornbeam, Witch hazel, Striped and Mountain Maple, and Maple Leaf Viburnum. Aside from the abundant trilliums, Mayapples, and Blue Cohosh, I couldn’t tell you what herbs and wildflowers I saw, but there’s quite a few. I really should have brought my guidebook with me.
Back to the trees. Here’s what I measured today:
*NY Height Maximum
Eastern White Pine
148.3’ x 9.4’
144.8’ x 8.55’
American Sycamore
140.3’ x 5.63’
Eastern Hemlock
134.6’ x 7.44’
White Ash
131.6’ x 7.19’
131.1’ x 7.93’
Bitternut Hickory
129.8’ x 5.45’
Cucumber Magnolia
127.1’ x 8.4’*
Eastern Cottonwood
121.0’ x 5.85’
Black Cherry
118.3’ x 5.91’
Chestnut Oak
114.2’ x 6.99’
Black Birch
100.1’
Current Rucker Average: 133.5’
Eastern White Pine: 148.3’
American Sycamore: 140.3’
Tuliptree: 140.2’
Eastern Hemlock: 134.6’
White Ash: 131.6’
American Basswood: 130.1’
Red Hickory: 130.0’
Bitternut Hickory: 129.8’
Cucumber Magnolia: 127.1’
White Oak: 123.1’
A couple of notes: Some trees (especially the Bitternut) are taller than listed, due to the difficulty I had in seeing tree tops in the closed canopy; also, many of the larger hemlocks have been tagged and treated for the HWA, which are present in the area.
I was able to count the growth rings on a fallen and cut up White Pine that seemed contemporary with those I measured, and arrived at approximately 160. That age seems appropriate for the majority of the oldest trees in the park, though many are obviously much younger, and a few are probably somewhat older.
Some photos of the park:
Elijah
I returned to Robert Treman SP this afternoon, and was able to finish the survey I started a while back. While I didn’t find any life-changing lunkers, I was rewarded with a wonderfully diverse collection of trees, shrubs, and flowers within the gorge.
As with other similar Finger Lakes gorges, oaks (White, Black, and Chestnut) and hickories (Red and Pignut) dominate the upper rims. Tuliptrees, Hemlocks, White Pines, Shagbark Hickories, and Red and Sugar Maples are common on the steep slopes. The gorge bottom is loaded with Sycamores, Black and Yellow Birch, and to a lesser extent, White Ash. Red Oak and Basswood are found at every level of the ecosystem.
The wet, cool walls of the gorge provide shelter for Hornbeam, Witch hazel, Striped and Mountain Maple, and Maple Leaf Viburnum. Aside from the abundant trilliums, Mayapples, and Blue Cohosh, I couldn’t tell you what herbs and wildflowers I saw, but there’s quite a few. I really should have brought my guidebook with me.
Back to the trees. Here’s what I measured today:
*NY Height Maximum
Eastern White Pine
148.3’ x 9.4’
144.8’ x 8.55’
American Sycamore
140.3’ x 5.63’
Eastern Hemlock
134.6’ x 7.44’
White Ash
131.6’ x 7.19’
131.1’ x 7.93’
Bitternut Hickory
129.8’ x 5.45’
Cucumber Magnolia
127.1’ x 8.4’*
Eastern Cottonwood
121.0’ x 5.85’
Black Cherry
118.3’ x 5.91’
Chestnut Oak
114.2’ x 6.99’
Black Birch
100.1’
Current Rucker Average: 133.5’
Eastern White Pine: 148.3’
American Sycamore: 140.3’
Tuliptree: 140.2’
Eastern Hemlock: 134.6’
White Ash: 131.6’
American Basswood: 130.1’
Red Hickory: 130.0’
Bitternut Hickory: 129.8’
Cucumber Magnolia: 127.1’
White Oak: 123.1’
A couple of notes: Some trees (especially the Bitternut) are taller than listed, due to the difficulty I had in seeing tree tops in the closed canopy; also, many of the larger hemlocks have been tagged and treated for the HWA, which are present in the area.
I was able to count the growth rings on a fallen and cut up White Pine that seemed contemporary with those I measured, and arrived at approximately 160. That age seems appropriate for the majority of the oldest trees in the park, though many are obviously much younger, and a few are probably somewhat older.
Some photos of the park:
- Maple leaf viburnum
- Typical forest floor on one of the small terraces
- Sycamores in an abandoned channel
- The tall Cuke
- Same cuke
"There is nothing in the world to equal the forest as nature made it. The finest formal forest, the most magnificent artificially grown woods, cannot compare with the grandeur of primeval woodland." Bob Marshall, Recreational Limitations to Silviculture in the Adirondacks
Re: Robert H. Treman State Park
Elijah,
Do you have a convenient list of NY sites by Rucker index? I'm losing track of where all the hot sites are. If we could clone you and Erik, we'd know every great site within a year. You guys are unstoppable.
Bob
Do you have a convenient list of NY sites by Rucker index? I'm losing track of where all the hot sites are. If we could clone you and Erik, we'd know every great site within a year. You guys are unstoppable.
Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre
Re: Robert H. Treman State Park
Bob,
I’ll see what I can put together in a separate thread. I’m sure I’ll leave a few out, but Erik would know the rest.
Elijah
I’ll see what I can put together in a separate thread. I’m sure I’ll leave a few out, but Erik would know the rest.
Elijah
"There is nothing in the world to equal the forest as nature made it. The finest formal forest, the most magnificent artificially grown woods, cannot compare with the grandeur of primeval woodland." Bob Marshall, Recreational Limitations to Silviculture in the Adirondacks
Re: Robert H. Treman State Park
Elijah,
You found a very rich site with excellent topography. It has a serious herb layer and some impressive height to girth ratios. This winter, you'll likely find a few state records.
You found a very rich site with excellent topography. It has a serious herb layer and some impressive height to girth ratios. This winter, you'll likely find a few state records.