"Super Cove" Sunday- Elkmont, TN TALLEST FOREST?

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edfrank
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Re: "Super Cove" Sunday- Elkmont, TN TALLEST FOREST?

Post by edfrank » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:25 pm

Will, Michael,

Could you contribute some more photos of trees or some of the LiDAR maps for the area to the thread?

Ed
"I love science and it pains me to think that so many are terrified of the subject or feel that choosing science means you cannot also choose compassion, or the arts, or be awe by nature. Science is not meant to cure us of mystery, but to reinvent and revigorate it." by Robert M. Sapolsky

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Will Blozan
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Re: "Super Cove" Sunday- Elkmont, TN TALLEST FOREST?

Post by Will Blozan » Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:42 am

NTS,

Here are some shots of Burnt Mountain and Cucumber Gap. I'll let Josh decide on posting some LiDAR images.
Burnt Mountain tulipography
Burnt Mountain tulipography
Mossy 'lips
Mossy 'lips
180 footer with downslope lean
180 footer with downslope lean
143.2 foot red maple
143.2 foot red maple
Little River at base of Burnt Mountain
Little River at base of Burnt Mountain
P1030633001.jpg (104.46 KiB) Viewed 1549 times
Super-dense Cucumber Gap tulips
Super-dense Cucumber Gap tulips
184.9 foot tuliptree at Cucumber Gap
184.9 foot tuliptree at Cucumber Gap
And the ghost resort town of Elkmont, TN. At least the hemlocks are being saved...
Ghost town of Elkmont
Ghost town of Elkmont
P1030625001.jpg (101.14 KiB) Viewed 1549 times
Ghost cottage 1
Ghost cottage 1
P1030642001.jpg (98.22 KiB) Viewed 1549 times
Ghost cottage 2
Ghost cottage 2
P1030643001.jpg (84.22 KiB) Viewed 1549 times
Ghost cottage 3
Ghost cottage 3
P1030647001.jpg (95.06 KiB) Viewed 1549 times
Inside ghost cottage
Inside ghost cottage
Ghost lodge- what a shame!
Ghost lodge- what a shame!
P1030655001.jpg (93.59 KiB) Viewed 1549 times

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edfrank
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Re: "Super Cove" Sunday- Elkmont, TN TALLEST FOREST?

Post by edfrank » Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:37 pm

Will,

Thanks for posting the photos. This adds a lot of color to your post. Amazing find. Congratulations to everyone.

Ed
"I love science and it pains me to think that so many are terrified of the subject or feel that choosing science means you cannot also choose compassion, or the arts, or be awe by nature. Science is not meant to cure us of mystery, but to reinvent and revigorate it." by Robert M. Sapolsky

greenent22
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Re: "Super Cove" Sunday- Elkmont, TN TALLEST FOREST?

Post by greenent22 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:57 am

Chris wrote:Wow, another amazing site. Makes me miss the Great Smokies.

I am sure this has been discussed before and people smarter than I have thought about it, but does anyone know why these "young", secondary growth sites keep coming up as the tallest sites ? Assuming there are some fuzzy physiological limits to the heights certain trees species can attain, I would imagine the oldest trees in the richest sites would be the tallest [maybe not by much, but still....]....have these young trees just haven't had their crowns knocked out, does Tulip Poplar dominance decrease with forest age [thereby allowing more, "shorter" species to bring down site totals], did clear cutting, that doesn't mimic smaller "natural" gap openings, allow for unnaturally high density forest that "force" extreme heights?


Perhaps all growing up at once they mutually shield each other from wind and elements more thoroughly and as you say maybe they also end up all racing against each other??

Most sites have been logged, no saying that what OG is left was on the land that was conducive to having the highest amounts of tall trees?? Maybe some ancient areas had some larger natural clearings and had had the best of all, shielding, max mutual competition, soils with nothing removed, a few of the oldest, tallest still left, but those such few areas have mostly or all been logged??

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dbhguru
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Re: "Super Cove" Sunday- Elkmont, TN TALLEST FOREST?

Post by dbhguru » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:23 am

Will,

An amazing sequence. Wow, the 184.7-footer looks like, like, well, a 184.7 footer. It is hard to grasp the significance of these numbers. We both will recall when the mere thought of a 170 set our hearts to palpitating. Now thanks to LIDAR, they are almost common. I wonder how many professionals out there in cyberspace are scanning our website and BBS and coming to understand what we already know about the height distribution of the species?

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

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Don
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Re: "Super Cove" Sunday- Elkmont, TN TALLEST FOREST?

Post by Don » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:34 am

I can in no way speak to the enclaves in the Smokies, but one of the things that emerged from study of the ponderosa pine forest in northern Arizona (largest contiguous stand of ponderosa pines in the world) is that around the turn of the century (1900's) all of the environmental influences (precipitation, and timing of it, solar insolation, soil warming and timing of it, relative humidities, etc.) all 'conspired' to provide the ideal conditions for seed germination, seedling growth, regeneration (oh how the forest regenerated, there's "doghair" thickets of ponderosa pines over 2000 per acre, not uncommon), and mature tree growth. These are the makings of forest stands that bring about competition among poles to put their energies into height growth rather than diameter growth.
Perhaps a study of the records of climate over the time period that the super-second growth stands of the Smokies might show a similar "perfect storm"?
Don Bertolette - President/Moderator, WNTS BBS
Restoration Forester (Retired)
Science Center
Grand Canyon National Park

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View my Alaska Big Tree List Webpage at:
http://www.akbigtreelist.org

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Chris
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Re: "Super Cove" Sunday- Elkmont, TN TALLEST FOREST?

Post by Chris » Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:39 pm

Don, I assumed [and probably read] those doghair Ponderosa Pine forests were the result of fire suppression

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jamesrobertsmith
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Re: "Super Cove" Sunday- Elkmont, TN TALLEST FOREST?

Post by jamesrobertsmith » Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:15 am

I don't know why anyone would worry about the dissolution of the Elkmont community in the park. If you want to see cabins in the woods, the entire borders of the Park are inundated with such. I am glad to see them rotting into the earth and wish they would go away as quickly as possible. Last I heard the Park Service was going to rehabilitate a few of the houses that can be useful, but I can't imagine why they would want to preserve any of them, unless they would be useful as housing for Park employees.

I do kind of miss the old Wonderland Hotel. When I heard it was closing forever, my wife and I booked a room there so that we could at least have some kind of memory of what it was like. Unfortunately, it was right at the end and the concessionaires had thrown in the towel and the experience was not what it likely was in the best days of the endeavor. But the Park was created to preserve the biosphere, not poorly constructed buildings that really have no purpose there.

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