Norway spruces in Buckland

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johnofthetrees
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Norway spruces in Buckland

Post by johnofthetrees » Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:01 am

At the conclusion of the Jake Swamp Tree climb, a group of ENTS, consisting of Tim Zelazo, Bart Bouricious, Will Blozan, Turner Sharp and I visited the Buckland State Forest to view the tall Norway Spruce and European Larch. I am going out on a limb with the id, but we all thought it likely to be Larix Decidua. One confirming reference is:

http://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/tre ... _larch.htm

which looks like what we saw except the needles were a little shorter.

We reached the grove in about a 15 minute walk, through a mixed forest with some large red oak, white ash and bitternut hickory among the usual northern hardwoods and softwoods. Near the grove, an occasional larch would appear, some of them showing substantial character development in their bark. The grove lies on a moderate slope, bounded by a small stream below and a steeper, rocky slope above that rises to a ledgy ridge. The grove is bounded by stone walls on two sides as well. We confirmed that all of the champion and near champion trees were indeed tall and still in good shape after the winter. The previous tallest Norway spruce had appeared to gain several inches of growth, and measured to 146.1'h x 7.37'c. I did not remeasure the larch carefully, but did rough it out to 146'. The black cherry looked to have grown quite a bit this season, and now measures 125.1', again without a careful assessment of base elevation. This cherry tree may be the current state height record holder, as the Trout brook cherry has eluded detection lately. I also got 130' on the large white ash. The second tall Norway, which can be identified by a stripe of blue paint at 4.7', took a while to find. Bart and I finally located it near the ash. I was surprised to find a new, fast growing top peeking out behind another, that resulted in a height measurement of 150.4'h x 6.3'c. The annual growth appeared to be around a foot on that tip. Will measured several more spruce and larch, exceeding 140' a couple of times. As usual. i\I would like to return and take more careful measurements to document this growing season, as well as take some photographs

The spruce and larch in this grove appear to be growing very well, and together with the high growth seen in black cherry and white ash, demonstrate the high quality of the forest growth on this site.

John
We looked everywhere for the tree but couldn't find it.<br />  Photo:  Tim Zelazo
We looked everywhere for the tree but couldn't find it.
Photo: Tim Zelazo

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dbhguru
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Re: Norway spruces in Buckland

Post by dbhguru » Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:13 am

John,

All Ents are greatly indebted to you for the Buckland State Forest finds. I expect that Gaines is going to be elated when he reads of a 150-foot Norway Spruce along with several over 140.

ENTS,

For those of you who do not know, John Eichholz is a mathematician and one of the best tree measurers on the planet. We are very, very lucky to have him in ENTS. His contributions are off the charts. John is very easy going. He is laid back, but beneath the calm exterior beats the heart of a ferocious and unerringly competent tree measurer. John has a very demanding job, but still takes the time to find new champions and put truth into the tall tree numbers. We are also indebted to DCR District Manager Tim Zelazo who has insured the protection of Buckland State Forest. Tim is an Ent in every sense of the term. The DCR-ENTS partnership has been as productive as any I know of between a state land manager and a private group.

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

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gnmcmartin
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Re: Norway spruces in Buckland

Post by gnmcmartin » Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:21 am

John:

Yes!! I was very, very disappointed to have found the Glady stand in WV cut down, but you have one there, and one more interesting because of the larch. And, apparently, in a better setting. Hah!! Norway spruce lives!

I would like to know the age. I would like to see pictures of the trees from some good perspective to see the foliage habit, and I would like to see pictures, with measurements, of the cones. And I would like to know the soil type, and I would like to know if there is any record of the seed source. Ah, yes, there is so much i would like to know!

Tom: OK, get busy in NY and find the best groves there. I think there is a lot to be discovered.

--Gaines

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James Parton
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Re: Norway spruces in Buckland

Post by James Parton » Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:47 am

John and all,

Awesome! We finally got a Norway Spruce here in the US over 150! That is totally awesome. Great job!

I have plans myself to do some searches here in my local area to measure some Norway Spruce this winter. Returning to some plantations that Jess tipped me off to that are located near Lake Logan above Canton NC is one place. Norway Spruce is an ENTS approved introduced species and I think we all pretty much like em'.

When I saw " Buckland " on the posts title, I thought, How did them nuts find Middle Earth? Buckland in Tolkien's writings was part of the Shire you know?
James E Parton
Ovate Course Graduate - Druid Student
Bardic Mentor
New Order of Druids

http://www.druidcircle.org/nod/index.ph ... Itemid=145

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johnofthetrees
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Re: Norway spruces in Buckland

Post by johnofthetrees » Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:35 pm

Gaines,

I will try to get back soon for a photo documentation before the needles fall. It would be great to have a definitive species assignment for the larch. I see there are several related species in Europe. I will also look for spruce cones new and old.

I didn't notice spruce or larch regeneration at this site. I will look more closely. I saw extensive regeneration of Norway spruce in Savoy, among the plantations on Spruce Hill, which is at a higher elevation.

There is an effort underway to see what documentation exists on the age of the plantation. It is probably safe to say it is 1930's, perhaps older.

Speaking of Tolkienesque woods, I should dig out some photos I have of the 30' cbh red oak about a half mile further into the forest (5 stems 13'c each fused into a massive trunk.)

Good luck with your searches!

John

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gnmcmartin
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Re: Norway spruces in Buckland

Post by gnmcmartin » Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:51 pm

John:

I have seen European larch planted with Norway spruce in WPA/CCC plantations a few times, but never any other larch. Of course we need a positive ID, but I would think the chances are something like 99% it is European larch.

We have good Norway spruce reproduction here in the MD mts. I have never seen larch reproduction here.

--Gaines

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johnofthetrees
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Re: Norway spruces in Buckland

Post by johnofthetrees » Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:04 pm

I returned to Buckland State Forest to gather cones and some additional tree data. I also confirmed that the tall black cherry is 125.1'h x 5.2'c, so it is likely the tallest in Massachusetts.

Here are some pictures from the visit:


Click on image to see its original size
The spruce have excellent form, both in trunk and in crown.

Click on image to see its original size
Here is the trunk of the 146.1' x 7.4' spruce:

Click on image to see its original size

And here is the top of the 150.4' spruce with a bird on the tip of the branch for scale -- what luck!

Click on image to see its original size

Spruce and Larch:

Click on image to see its original size

Larch close-up:

Click on image to see its original size

Larch in profile:

Click on image to see its original size

Here are some close-ups of cones and needles:

Norway spruce cones:

Click on image to see its original size

European larch cones:

Click on image to see its original size

European Larch needles:

Click on image to see its original size

Norway spruce needles:

Click on image to see its original size

And finally, Norway spruce regeneration in Savoy state forest in Massachusetts:

Click on image to see its original size


I hope someone can finally declare the Larch to be Larix Decidua!

John Eichholz


http://s835.photobucket.com/albums/zz27 ... n%20Larch/

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johnofthetrees
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Re: Norway spruces in Buckland

Post by johnofthetrees » Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:14 pm

Oh, also, here are some photos of the charter oak, a large 5 stem tree down the road from the spruce/larch grove:


Click on image to see its original size


Click on image to see its original size

The overall girth is 30.0' at 4.5', about at the level of the wall.

John

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James Parton
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Re: Norway spruces in Buckland

Post by James Parton » Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:10 pm

John,

WoW, that is one helluva spruce grove. Beautiful! Even though the Charter Oak is a fused five stem tree, 30 feet is still quite impressive.
James E Parton
Ovate Course Graduate - Druid Student
Bardic Mentor
New Order of Druids

http://www.druidcircle.org/nod/index.ph ... Itemid=145

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KoutaR
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Re: Norway spruces in Buckland

Post by KoutaR » Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:39 am

John,

It is Larix decidua. In Europe, there are only two larch species: L. decidua and L. sibirica in boreal Russia. In Russian taxonomy, the western (e.g. European) populations of L. sibirica are separated to a different species L. sukaczewii, but this is usually not followed in other countries. In Russia, the smallest taxonomic rank is species, and e.g. Scots pine is divided to several (maybe about ten) species. You wrote there would be several European larch species. Perhaps you meant there are several subspecies of L. decidua. Or that there are several species in Eurasia. In Asia, there are more species.

Anyway, interesting pictures! If there were not Acer pensylvanica (?) leaves, I could believe the photos have been taken in Europe.

Kouta

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