Live Oaks in Vacherie Louisiana Part 2 Oak Alley

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Larry Tucei
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Re: Live Oaks in Vacherie Louisiana Part 2 Oak Alley

Post by Larry Tucei » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:08 pm

Jeroen- I gotcha now. I just wasn't sure exactly what you meant. Larry

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tomhoward
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Re: Live Oaks in Vacherie Louisiana Part 2 Oak Alley

Post by tomhoward » Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:01 am

Here in Central NY I know of only 1 and possibly 1 other Oak with girth over 20 ft. The Oak that is definitely over 20 ft. girth is the largest tree here in North Syracuse, an open-grown White Oak 68 ft. tall (it has a wide spread but I haven't measured it yet) and 77 in. dbh (20.16 ft. cbh). This tree is growing very fast (in 2007 dbh it was 73.5 in.). It is a single-trunked tree. It is on a small hill in the back of Bear Rd. Elementary School, and seems to be no more than 190 years old, despite its great size. The tree was cored back in 1997 and there are only 44 rings on a 10" core. The best guess from an age estimated formula is about 190 years (or about 1820). The tree sits on the boundary of the towns of Cicero and Clay, and was possibly planted when Clay was set off from Cicero in 1827. Another large (but not as large as this) open-grown White Oak due north of this tree was blown down in 1998, and in 1999 I counted 180 rings on a cross-section of the trunk near the base - this could indicate a planing date of 1827. The much smaller in diameter forest-grown White Oaks in the North Syracuse Cemetery Oak Grove are estimated to be over 300 years old.

The other Oak in the 20 ft. dbh range is an open-grown Black Oak in Mt. Adnah Cemetery in Fulton in Oswego County. I have not seen this tree for many years, but it is a single-trunked tree 74 in. dbh (19.4 ft. cbh) in 2002. Its height is probably less than 70 ft. If it is growing fairly fast, it should be over 20 ft. cbh now.

Tom Howard

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Larry Tucei
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Re: Live Oaks in Vacherie Louisiana Part 2 Oak Alley

Post by Larry Tucei » Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:30 pm

Hi Tom- I know you have measured many Oaks in the North do you think that before Europeans many New England trees might have been many over 20'? Larry

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tomhoward
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Re: Live Oaks in Vacherie Louisiana Part 2 Oak Alley

Post by tomhoward » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:57 pm

Larry,

There seem definitely to have been at several Oaks in pre-settlement New England that were over 20 ft. girth. I downloaded a copy of Historic Trees of Massachusetts by James Symmons (1919) and he mentioned several Oaks over 20 ft. girth - these measurements may not have been made a breast height. They were mostly White Oaks with at least one Red Oak. All these Oaks were open-grown, and none approached 100 ft. in height. It's curious that all (or nearly all) the historic trees in a heavily forested region like New England were open-grown - maybe they spent most of their lives in clearings made by European settlers? Or they stood in native American fields? Or could New England have had natural Oak Savanna? The most famous group of Oaks in the region was the Waverley Oaks, an open-grown stand of White Oaks on a knoll in Belmont MA. These trees were said to have been 500-1000 years old. I read a report (found online in an article about 1907) that James Russell Lowell counted 750 rings on the stump of one of these trees about 1845. Charles Sprague Sargent, writing in 1890, doubted such great ages, and believed them to be at most 500 years old. They had the gnarled look of very old Oaks. The largest seems to have had a girth of just over 19 ft. The site today is Beaver Brook Reservation in Belmont, but all but 1 of the great old trees are gone, all but that one dying some time after 1920. The surviving tree is near the park entrance, and is mentioned in Symmons 1919 book as over 14 ft. girth. My brother and I saw this tree in 2010, and it was about 13.5 ft. cbh, meaning that it had scarcely grown since 1920 - It was only 50 ft. tall.

Tom Howard

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tomhoward
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Re: Live Oaks in Vacherie Louisiana Part 2 Oak Alley

Post by tomhoward » Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:39 pm

Here are a couple pictures of what the Waverley Oaks area looked like in 2010.

The first is a picture of the last surviving Waverley Oak.
last surviving Waverley Oak 2010 medium .jpg
The last picture shows the knoll where the oldest Oaks stood, in 2010 with 2nd growth Oaks.
Waverley Oaks site 2010 medium.jpg
Tom Howard

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John Harvey
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Re: Live Oaks in Vacherie Louisiana Part 2 Oak Alley

Post by John Harvey » Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:06 am

Here a few of the 20+ CBH Oaks Ive visited and some Ive discoverd in South Jersey.
Attachments
Willow Oak 20ft4in
Willow Oak 20ft4in
Willow Oak 20ft6in CBH
Willow Oak 20ft6in CBH
Clement Oak 20ft1in CBH
Clement Oak 20ft1in CBH
The Keeler Oak 22ft6in CBH
The Keeler Oak 22ft6in CBH
Salem Oak 22ft5in CBH
Salem Oak 22ft5in CBH
White Oak/second oldest NJ 20Ft6in CBH
White Oak/second oldest NJ 20Ft6in CBH
White Oak 21ft CBH
White Oak 21ft CBH
John D Harvey (JohnnyDJersey)

East Coast and West Coast Big Tree Hunter

"If you look closely at a tree you'll notice it's knots and dead branches, just like our bodies. What we learn is that beauty and imperfection go together wonderfully." - Matt Fox

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dbhguru
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Re: Live Oaks in Vacherie Louisiana Part 2 Oak Alley

Post by dbhguru » Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:19 am

Johnny,

Wow! Super images. It is apparent that southern New Jersey needs a lot more attention. My time spent in New Jersey has been all too little. There are locations for tall tuliptrees that are calling to be recognized. I have one tree at 150 feet in Morristown National Historical Park. I'm one hundred percent sure there are taller ones in the Garden State.

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

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