Big Creek/Mouse Creek and vicinity *NEW RECORDS*

Moderators: edfrank, dbhguru

greenent22
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:23 am

Re: Big Creek/Mouse Creek and vicinity *NEW RECORDS*

Post by greenent22 » Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:55 pm

James Parton wrote: Tallus fields? Is that those slippery slatelike rocks that lie under the leaf litter on the mountainsides? I remember that. It makes being on your knees easy!
Perhaps, although I think you might be thinking of something else. AFAIK, they are hardly ever covered over by leaf litter.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/benkimball1/2790490943/
A few pics down he shows a talus slope/field.

User avatar
KoutaR
Posts: 667
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:41 am

Re: Big Creek/Mouse Creek and vicinity *NEW RECORDS*

Post by KoutaR » Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:44 am

Will Blozan wrote:Some of the European oaks may be close.
Will,

The tallest laser measured oak in Europe in our knowledge is a pedunculate oak (Quercus robur) in Wipfelsfurt Forest, Kelheim, Bavaria, Germany. It is 43.5 meters (143 ft) tall, and the measurer is --- surprise --- Doug Bidlack. I think he has not written here about his Wipfelsfurt visit in May. Sessile oak (Q. petraea) probably attains about equal heights but measurements are still lacking.

What is yellowwood? Scientific name?

Kouta

User avatar
James Parton
Posts: 1576
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:47 pm

Re: Big Creek/Mouse Creek and vicinity *NEW RECORDS*

Post by James Parton » Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:31 am

Greenent,

These hillsides in the smokies had slatelike rocks on the mountainsides under forest litter. The rocks were smaller and more weathered than these in the photos. Will could give more details. I know they made climbing difficult.
James E Parton
Ovate Course Graduate - Druid Student
Bardic Mentor
New Order of Druids

http://www.druidcircle.org/nod/index.ph ... Itemid=145

User avatar
tsharp
Posts: 421
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:04 pm

Re: Big Creek/Mouse Creek and vicinity *NEW RECORDS*

Post by tsharp » Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:02 am

Kouta: Kentucky Yellowwood/Cladrastis kentuckea. I believe it used to be known as C. lutea
TSharp

Jeroen Philippona
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:52 am

Re: Big Creek/Mouse Creek and vicinity *NEW RECORDS*

Post by Jeroen Philippona » Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:12 am

Will,

Nice measurements. I did not now Halesia grows to such heights. The few planted here as ornamentals are very small trees a few meters tall; the record in the UK seems to be 16 m (52 ft).
About European oaks: we have lasermeasured only few oaks in Europe, except hundreds of Quercus robur in the Netherlands, were the record is 41,2 m (135.17 ft) and many Q. robur this summer by Thomas Niechoda in Bialowieza, who got 42,6 m (139,76 ft) as tallest. He wrote me that, while he measured in summer with closed canopy, some oaks could be a bit taller. He will measure again this winter.
Doug Bidlack had only little time when he visited Wipfelsfurt Forest in Germany, and shot the oak of 43.5 meters (143 ft) tall as well as some European ashes straight from below, so he thinks some trees can be a bit taller when measured in winter. Many trees he was not able to measure.
David Alderman of the British Tree Register told me he hopes to confirm several of the potential record broadleave trees including oaks in the UK by climbing.
Probably oaks above 140 feet and perhaps 150 feet can be found in some forests in France with most Q. petraea. Also some more forests in Bavaria, Germany as well as in Kroatia grow tall oaks of both species.

Jeroen

User avatar
Will Blozan
Posts: 1153
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:13 pm

Re: Big Creek/Mouse Creek and vicinity *NEW RECORDS*

Post by Will Blozan » Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:16 pm

Jeroon,

As usual, your wealth of relevant information is much appreciated! I would love to see and measure those oaks in France. The historic photos of Q. petraea are insane!

Halesia has three genera that I am familiar with here in the eastern US. The largest and tallest is by far, and I mean by FAR, mountain silverbell. It is listed- depending on the source- as Halesia monticola or Halesia tetratera var. monticola, and is the largest and tallest with trees up to 136 cm DBH. Carolina silverbell, known as Halesia carolina or Halesia tetratera, is much, much smaller and is not present in the Smokies or large mountains until father south, and seems to prefer rich floodplains on large rivers and/or rich pockets of soil on upland sites. Your tree at 53' is likely a Carolina silverbell and as such is decent in height. I think I know of one close to 70 feet but have not measured it yet. The other species is H. diptera; two-winged silverbell. Like H. carolina, it is rather small but a gorgeous tree.

The mountain silverbell likely deserves a post unto itself, as I feel it is under-appreciated as a tall and large forest tree. This, coupled with its stunning beauty, warrants further discussion and recognition of an unheralded denizen of our eastern woodlands.

Will Blozan

User avatar
James Parton
Posts: 1576
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:47 pm

Re: Big Creek/Mouse Creek and vicinity *NEW RECORDS*

Post by James Parton » Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:21 pm

Will,

I remember seeing some Carolina Silverbell in Chimney Rock Park, not far from the Broad River some years back. It had really pretty flowers.

James
James E Parton
Ovate Course Graduate - Druid Student
Bardic Mentor
New Order of Druids

http://www.druidcircle.org/nod/index.ph ... Itemid=145

greenent22
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:23 am

Re: Big Creek/Mouse Creek and vicinity *NEW RECORDS*

Post by greenent22 » Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:20 pm

Will Blozan wrote:Jeroon,

I would love to see and measure those oaks in France. The historic photos of Q. petraea are insane!
Do you have any links to those impressive photos of Q. petraea from days past?

Jeroen Philippona
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:52 am

Re: Big Creek/Mouse Creek and vicinity *NEW RECORDS*

Post by Jeroen Philippona » Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:06 am

Greenent22,

At the old website of ENTS yhere is a post of me of 2005 with some Quercus petraea photos. See: http://www.nativetreesociety.org/worldt ... _trees.htm

Hereby these photos anew. Two are of 1977 with the Jupiter oak (35 m tall, 6,8 m cbh) and myself in the Forest of Fontainebleau. This oak died around 1992 but the dead trunk is still standing.
Chene Jupiter overz. 150-60%.jpg
Chene Jupiter stam nabij + Jeroen 100.jpg
The other is of the Partisan oak near the Vosges, eastern France, 32,7 m tall, 9,8 m cbh.
Chene des partisans Vogezen Martigny-les-Bains 32.jpg
These two oaks are very large because old, but not especially tall. In several forests in France maximum heights of Sessile oak are reported as 40 to 44 m (131 - 144 ft), in one forest, the Forêt de Bercé, a maximum height of 47 m (154 ft) is given. We still have to measure them with sine based measurement or climbing.
In Germany the maximum height given for sessile oak is 44 m (144 ft) for old growth forests in the Spessart, southeast of Frankfurt am Main.

Jeroen Philippona

greenent22
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:23 am

Re: Big Creek/Mouse Creek and vicinity *NEW RECORDS*

Post by greenent22 » Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:25 am

Jeroen,

thanks, fantastic stuff!

Post Reply

Return to “Great Smoky Mountains National Park”