Tallest Known Native Hardwood in US - Deep Creek Watershed

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mdavie
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Re: Tallest Known Native Hardwood in US - Deep Creek Waters

Post by mdavie » Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:49 pm

Josh, that's fantastic! What elevation were these at, what age class did they appear to be (like, how rugged are the crowns). What was the LIDAR saying about the site? C'mon, more details!
I'm going to have to see this place. Perhaps on a return trip in the fall?
Anyway, great job, man.

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Marcboston
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Re: Tallest Known Native Hardwood in US - Deep Creek Waters

Post by Marcboston » Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:33 pm

Wow Josh you gotta get some pictures of them. That is amazing, is the location in a state/national park I am not familiar with "Deep Creek".

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Josh Kelly
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Re: Tallest Known Native Hardwood in US - Deep Creek Waters

Post by Josh Kelly » Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:44 pm

Marc, Mike, James et. al,

For photos of this cluster of trees check Ian's original post. His photos are pretty good. That being said, it's hard for photos to capture tall deciduous trees in the growing season.

Mike, The cove with the cluster of super tall poplars is east facing. It's pretty steep, steeper than a cove you would pick out on a map to look for big trees in. The spot where the tall trees are rooted is less steep than many other parts of the cove and as I noted water is abundant in the form of seepage. The elevation of the exact spot is about 3550'. Details on LiDAR points can be found in my earlier post and in the discussion thread from Ian's first post. Age class is interesting. These trees are not that young. The tall ones all appear over 200 years based on bark and limb structure. A 3' dbh poplar in the shade of the big guys looks absolutely ancient. This is definitely an old-growth site. It's sweet that these particular trees have not lost their crowns yet - some of their neighbors have. A poplar just off the Fork Ridge Trail is also super notable for going 20' gbh x 173' or something like that. It has potential to be the tallest of the 20 footers.

Marc, Deep Creek is in Smoky Mountain National Park.

Josh

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edfrank
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Re: Tallest Known Native Hardwood in US - Deep Creek Waters

Post by edfrank » Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:16 pm

Ian Breckheimer's original post:

http://www.ents-bbs.org/viewtopic.php?p=2611


Click on image to see its original size


Click on image to see its original size
..
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Zachary S
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Re: Tallest Known Native Hardwood in US - Deep Creek Waters

Post by Zachary S » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:46 am

Pardon my enthusiasm, but...

WOW.

That's the kind of news I get very excited over! I know I was thrilled when Will and company measured the first 180-footer back in 2008, but to break the record by such a large margin, considering how tightly clustered the max height numbers are, is phenomenal. Now I'm starting to think there might have been some validity to turn-of-the-century reports of tulips in North Carolina over 190' (Reems Creek Tree, maybe?)

A-W-E-S-O-M-E.

~Z

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tsharp
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Re: Tallest Known Native Hardwood in US - Deep Creek Waters

Post by tsharp » Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:59 pm

Josh: Very impressive. Congratulations. I am really looking forward leaf-drop this coming fall so you can better measurements. Here is a personal question: Did you suffer from"Buck Fever" and have any trouble holding clinometer or rangefinder steady?
Turner Sharp

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Josh Kelly
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Re: Tallest Known Native Hardwood in US - Deep Creek Waters

Post by Josh Kelly » Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:49 pm

Bob, Turner, Zach, et al.,

Thanks for all the congratulations. I don't think I've really earned them. Still, thanks.

Turner, I did not experience the quaking that one gets from sighting a buck or seeing a big fish hit a fly. That may have been because I was simply confirming a tree that someone else found. Also, the lack of confidence in the absolute precision of the measurement takes some of the thrill away. I will probably be more excited to return and get a better look at the tree. I will confess that I felt quite a bit of wonder and awe when the rangefinder returned readings of over 80 yards from my vantage point to the top and base. It is also very exciting to think there may be taller trees out there and that the volume record for Liriodendron may still be unknown.

Josh

greenent22
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Re: Tallest Known Native Hardwood in US - Deep Creek Waters

Post by greenent22 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:54 am

Josh Kelly wrote:Marc, Mike, James et. al,

For photos of this cluster of trees check Ian's original post. His photos are pretty good. That being said, it's hard for photos to capture tall deciduous trees in the growing season.

Mike, The cove with the cluster of super tall poplars is east facing. It's pretty steep, steeper than a cove you would pick out on a map to look for big trees in. The spot where the tall trees are rooted is less steep than many other parts of the cove and as I noted water is abundant in the form of seepage. The elevation of the exact spot is about 3550'. Details on LiDAR points can be found in my earlier post and in the discussion thread from Ian's first post. Age class is interesting. These trees are not that young. The tall ones all appear over 200 years based on bark and limb structure. A 3' dbh poplar in the shade of the big guys looks absolutely ancient. This is definitely an old-growth site. It's sweet that these particular trees have not lost their crowns yet - some of their neighbors have. A poplar just off the Fork Ridge Trail is also super notable for going 20' gbh x 173' or something like that. It has potential to be the tallest of the 20 footers.

Marc, Deep Creek is in Smoky Mountain National Park.

Josh
Wow, such awesome news.

Cool too that it is in the OG section since some had been thinking that the second growth tulips would contain the tallest hardwood.

peter macdonagh
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Re: Tallest Known Native Hardwood in US - Deep Creek Waters

Post by peter macdonagh » Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:30 am

Josh,
Congratulations on the sky topping Tulip Tree - the new tallest eastern native hardwood.
s.
What about the Sherman White Pine near Rhinelander, WI? I thought it was the tallest native tree in the east @ 201 feet.
Best
Peter MacDonagh

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dbhguru
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Re: Tallest Known Native Hardwood in US - Deep Creek Waters

Post by dbhguru » Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:44 am

Peter,

Regrettably, you can toss out the big numbers you read from other sources, or at least be highly suspicious of them. The over-estimates of heights given in champion tree programs to include the national register are off sometimes by tens of feet. We have many stories. We in ENTS do not recognize any tree height measurements that one of us doesn't confirm by more exacting height measurement methods. This may sound elitist, and I guess it is, but the customary methods for measuring tree height lead to extreme errors when performed carelessly, which is often the case by amateur and professional alike.

The tallest eastern tree, accurately measured was the Boogerman Pine in the Great Smoky Mountains NP, which Will Blozan and I measured in the summer of 1995. It was a whopping 207 feet then. Hurricane Opal in the 1996 I believe and an early oct snow in the Smokies left our champ with a broken top and a height of about 180 feet. Since then it has grown back to about 189 feet. It was the tallest authenticated tree in the East until the Tuliptree confirmation. More on this topic later.

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

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