WNTS Old Growth Conference-Durango CO-2014

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Rand
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Re: WNTS Old Growth Conference-Durango CO-2014

Post by Rand » Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:48 pm

I stayed at junction creek, 3 years ago, and was quite pleased. The bathrooms were new and well kept. The sites were decently level and well spaced out. I imagine it depends on the time of year, but the campground wasn't busy at all when I was there.

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Matt Markworth
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Re: WNTS Old Growth Conference-Durango CO-2014

Post by Matt Markworth » Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:53 am

Here is a good resource describing the native trees of Colorado that I'm finding helpful . . .

http://www.westernexplorers.us/ColoradoTrees.html

Matt

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dbhguru
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Re: WNTS Old Growth Conference-Durango CO-2014

Post by dbhguru » Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:55 am

Matt,

Thanks. This is a good general source of information. It is well written. Of course we can ignore the tree height statistics. I'm sure the author pulled his numbers from many sources, many very unreliable sources. For example, here is what is said about Blue spruce:

It typically grows to 40 to 60 feet (12 to 18 m) in height and one to two (30 to 60 cm) feet in trunk diameter. One of the largest known Blue spruce grows in Colorado; it was 126 feet (38.4 m) high and 15 feet 8 inches (4.77 m) around the trunk when measured in 1964. The Blue spruce is the state tree of Colorado, selected by vote of the state's school children on April 15, 1892.

I would hardly notice a 40 to 60-foot Blue. They commonly make it to between 90 and 110, and in favorable places get much taller. We've measured them to 160.2 feet in the La Platas. You'll see it in August. We've measured 7 to over 150 feet in southwestern Colorado.

The role of NTS (ENTS, WNTS, EUNTS, ANTS, etc.) in setting the record straight is not to be taken lightly.

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

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Don
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Re: WNTS Old Growth Conference-Durango CO-2014

Post by Don » Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:15 pm

Mark-
An interesting source! In the past, I've posed the query "What causes the spiral grain seen in trees occasionally"?
Here's the authors take on it:
"Twisted Trunks
Bare trunks of Engelmann spruce, dead and stripped of bark, often show an unusual feature: the grain twisted along the entire trunk, in the same pattern as a candy cane. A twist may be noted in some living trees. Trunks with both right-handed and left handed twist can be found. I believe this is not caused by a biological growth characteristic, but is caused by a torque or twisting force imparted by wind. Clearly
a tree fully exposed to wind is not twisted so much as bent and shaken. What happens in the spruce-fir forest is this. Most strong mountain winds are from one direction, usually from due west in the Colorado high country except were surface topographic relief steers winds from purely westerlies. Due to some kind of obstruction – other trees or a rock outcrop for example – one side of a particular tree is more exposed to the perennial strong winds from one direction. The other side of the tree may be exposed to the same wind, but less so. The net force of the persistent wind, stronger on one side of the tree than the other, makes a twisting force which constantly tries to rotate the tree as it grows. The direction of the twist depends on which side of the tree was most exposed to the wind, and on which
way the wind blows. Twisted trunks are found in other species as well."
Like Ed, I'm not sure he's on to it...
Don Bertolette - President/Moderator, WNTS BBS
Restoration Forester (Retired)
Science Center
Grand Canyon National Park

BJCP Apprentice Beer Judge

View my Alaska Big Tree List Webpage at:
http://www.akbigtreelist.org

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Matt Markworth
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Re: WNTS Old Growth Conference-Durango CO-2014

Post by Matt Markworth » Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:59 pm

Bob,

Thanks for mentioning that. I tend to block out anything related to heights from outside sources, but it's very important to point out those discrepancies when making a reference to a resource. It really is disappointing how incorrect the tree height data can be in ID guides, even from otherwise very reputable authors. We've all seen egregious examples, such as some books stating that Tuliptrees max out at 100', while others state 200'. I suppose that authors are okay with relying on what has been printed in the past or they just don't know where to turn for reliable information. I'm very proud to be part of an organization that is throwing an arch over the darker gulf of ignorance that surrounds us, as Thoreau would say.

Don,

I, too, find that theory very implausible. The branches would absorb most of the energy from the wind and very little would be left for a "twisting" force. I read some of the old posts and tend to agree that the answer lies in the cell formation.

Matt

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Bart Bouricius
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Re: WNTS Old Growth Conference-Durango CO-2014

Post by Bart Bouricius » Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:31 am

Matt,

You are so right and this applies worldwide, I just noticed that an otherwise good reference lists Wild Cashew as reaching 25 meters or 82 feet. I just measured one at 177 feet or 54 meters. Now that's a discrepancy!

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Will Blozan
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Re: WNTS Old Growth Conference-Durango CO-2014

Post by Will Blozan » Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:58 am

Matt,

Thanks for the link. Maybe at this time we should invite him to the event and propose we collaborate on his excellent start and supply him with accurate information. He obviously put a lot of work into it and seems like he could be receptive to new and accurate information. If not, well... just one more dimensionally worthless internet resource to be perpetuated ad nauseum...

Rather than continue to bitch about these sources we should at least make attempts to assist.

Will

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Don
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Re: WNTS Old Growth Conference-Durango CO-2014

Post by Don » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:23 pm

Will-
You're absolutely right...I've recently realized that we (WNTS, NTS) sometimes get insular and noticed that even though we'd (WNTS) held our Rendezvous for several years in Durango area, I hadn't even approached the Big Tree Coordinator for Colorado with an invitation to attend. I've since emailed an invitation to him and am in the process of broadening our invitations to others.

Re your comment ("...at least make attempts to assist"), I've obtained the author's email address (stuartwier@westernexplorers.us) and will contact him soon by email, as a start. I noticed that he's had several reprints since 1998, so it may be he'll be interested in updates!
-Don
Don Bertolette - President/Moderator, WNTS BBS
Restoration Forester (Retired)
Science Center
Grand Canyon National Park

BJCP Apprentice Beer Judge

View my Alaska Big Tree List Webpage at:
http://www.akbigtreelist.org

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pattyjenkins1
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Re: WNTS Old Growth Conference-Durango CO-2014

Post by pattyjenkins1 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:03 am

I don't know why Bob is calling us "special guests," but we're really stoked about coming.
Patty (for me and Peter)
Patty Jenkins
Executive Director
Tree Climbers International, Inc.
Get High / Climb Trees

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Matt Markworth
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Re: WNTS Old Growth Conference-Durango CO-2014

Post by Matt Markworth » Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:17 pm

I came to my senses and decided to fly, instead of drive.

46 hours of round trip driving doesn't make sense for this trip, but I will drive out there some day. With multiple passengers or a longer time frame, driving would make sense, but I will sit back and relax this time.

Matt

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