Tree Maximums - Genus of the Week: Abies (fir)

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Matt Markworth
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Tree Maximums - Genus of the Week: Abies (fir)

Post by Matt Markworth » Sun May 12, 2013 8:59 pm

Hi All,

Just want to say thank you to everyone for all the participation and support thus far. I have leaned heavily on Jess's MaxList and other lists and I appreciate all of the submissions that have occurred in the first month and a half of the Tree of the Week forum.

Realizing that it could take over a decade at the rate of one species per week, it makes sense to cover more ground. Ed suggested doing a genus or two per week, which I think is a great idea and we can work through the genera alphabetically.

As a point of reference, I will include information from Jess's Maxlist and also a list of species from the USDA website.

This week's Genus: Abies (fir)

http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=ABIES

Here is a sampling of the firs that can be submitted:

Abies alba, Silver Fir
Abies amabilis, Pacific silver fir
Abies balsamea, Balsam fir
Abies bracteata, Bristlecone fir
Abies concolor, White fir
Abies fraseri, Fraser fir
Abies grandis, Grand fir
Abies guatemalensis, Guatemalan fir
Abies homolepis, Nikko fir
Abies lasiocarpa, Subalpine fir
Abies lowiana, Sierra White fir
Abies magnifica, California red fir
Abies procera, Noble fir
Abies veitchii, Christmastree

Here is an excerpt of data from Jess's Maxlist:
Abies.PNG
Please reply with these measurement details if you think you've measured impressive height, girth, or spread for an Abies species:

Species (Scientific):
Species (Common):
Height (ft):
CBH (ft):
Maximum Spread (ft):
Average Spread (ft):
Volume (ft3)
Site Name:
Subsite Name:
Country:
State or Province:
Property Owner:
Date of Measurement:
NTS Measurer(s):
Method of Height Measurement:
Tree Name:
Habitat:
Notes:

Tree of the Week Guidelines: http://www.ents-bbs.org/viewtopic.php?f=393&t=5221

Tree of the Week Forum: http://www.ents-bbs.org/viewforum.php?f=393


- Matt Markworth
Last edited by Matt Markworth on Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:31 am, edited 5 times in total.

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edfrank
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Re: Tree Maximums - Genus of the Week: Abies (fir)

Post by edfrank » Mon May 13, 2013 2:55 pm

Attached is a compilations of Abies data from the Gymnosperm Database and from NTS Listings. For reference I have included notes from the GD for reference, but they are proprietary and should not be included in any of our final compilations aside from the BVP references. We should include the BVP measurements in our compilations as they were conducted either with a laser total station or from tape drops. I made some minor tweaks to the reporting form to include a column for maximum volume. The dead tree measurements are shaded in gray to distinguish them from current numbers. Please fix any numerical errors in the compilation or replace older data with new.

Edward Forrest Frank
Attachments
abies.xlsx
(14.16 KiB) Downloaded 93 times
"I love science and it pains me to think that so many are terrified of the subject or feel that choosing science means you cannot also choose compassion, or the arts, or be awe by nature. Science is not meant to cure us of mystery, but to reinvent and revigorate it." by Robert M. Sapolsky

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KoutaR
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Re: Tree Maximums - Genus of the Week: Abies (fir)

Post by KoutaR » Tue May 14, 2013 3:10 am

Ed, Matt,

According to "Forest Giants of the Pacific Coast" by BVP, the 325-ft noble fir was not laser-measured. Thus, it should perhaps not be in the list or at least it should be mentioned that it was measured with the tangent method. Direct quotation, p. 94:
This grove contained an individual that was measured as having a height of 325 feet. Although not a laser-based measurement, ...
Kouta

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bbeduhn
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Re: Tree Maximums - Genus of the Week: Abies (fir)

Post by bbeduhn » Tue May 14, 2013 9:42 am

I have a few candidates. Obviously, the Pacific silver won't compare with the native trees out west:

Pacific silver fir 95.6' School rd, Malvern Hills, West Asheville, NC

European silver fir ~113.8' Charlotte Street, Asheville, NC

Fraser fir 59.0' Ox Creek Rd., Buncombe County, NC

Nikko fir 116.7' intersection after visitor center, across from the Metasequoia grove, Biltmore Estate

All sites are in private hands and all trees were measured with a Nikon 550 and Suunto clinometer. The Euro silver fir is a tough shot at a rounded crown and is almost completely surrounded by a building.

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edfrank
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Re: Tree Maximums - Genus of the Week: Abies (fir)

Post by edfrank » Tue May 14, 2013 11:44 am

KoutaR wrote:Ed, Matt,

According to "Forest Giants of the Pacific Coast" by BVP, the 325-ft noble fir was not laser-measured. Thus, it should perhaps not be in the list or at least it should be mentioned that it was measured with the tangent method. Direct quotation, p. 94:
This grove contained an individual that was measured as having a height of 325 feet. Although not a laser-based measurement, ...
Kouta
Yes, that should be noted. Thanks for catching the error.

Ed
"I love science and it pains me to think that so many are terrified of the subject or feel that choosing science means you cannot also choose compassion, or the arts, or be awe by nature. Science is not meant to cure us of mystery, but to reinvent and revigorate it." by Robert M. Sapolsky

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Don
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Re: Tree Maximums - Genus of the Week: Abies (fir)

Post by Don » Tue May 14, 2013 3:32 pm

Matt/Ed-
Even though my participation with AF often has me advocating for some of their 'takes' on things, I am thinking that in a forum known as the Native Tree Society, that we should discriminate between native and naturalized (introduced, ornamentals, etc.). Those feeling strongly for naturalized/etc., could form a separate list? This would also have the effect of a more manageable sized list...
-Don
Don Bertolette - President/Moderator, WNTS BBS
Restoration Forester (Retired)
Science Center
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Matt Markworth
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Re: Tree Maximums - Genus of the Week: Abies (fir)

Post by Matt Markworth » Tue May 14, 2013 8:06 pm

Don wrote:I am thinking that in a forum known as the Native Tree Society, that we should discriminate between native and naturalized (introduced, ornamentals, etc.). Those feeling strongly for naturalized/etc., could form a separate list? This would also have the effect of a more manageable sized list...
Don,

I'm good with having both native and naturalized in the list. If I was gleaning all of the information post by post by myself, then I'd be very concerned with keeping it to a manageable list. By opening up the submission process to everyone and then entering the results into the spreadsheet once a week, I'm comfortable including as many species/sub-species as possible.

- Matt

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Don
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Re: Tree Maximums - Genus of the Week: Abies (fir)

Post by Don » Wed May 15, 2013 6:02 pm

I am thinking that folks interested in this thread, may be interested in the descriptions and drawings of George Sudworth in Forest Trees of the Pacific Slope, which I'm happy to acknowledge as the source for the following reproduced pages of text on Abies magnifica and it's variety, shastensis.
For those familiar with the geography/topography of Northern California, you should love the detail provided by Sudworth in the "Range" section !

Please click on image for enlarged viewing.
Sudworth1r.jpg
Sudworth2r.jpg
Attachments
Sudworth3r.jpg
Don Bertolette - President/Moderator, WNTS BBS
Restoration Forester (Retired)
Science Center
Grand Canyon National Park

BJCP Apprentice Beer Judge

View my Alaska Big Tree List Webpage at:
http://www.akbigtreelist.org

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Matt Markworth
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Re: Tree Maximums - Genus of the Week: Abies (fir)

Post by Matt Markworth » Thu May 16, 2013 7:47 pm

Brian,

Thanks for the submissions. Do you have dates associated with the measurements and possibly CBH? If they're on private property, then it's understandable if you couldn't get CBH. Also, would you consider the European Silver Fir a "Not Less Than (NLT)" measurement?

- Matt

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Will Blozan
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Re: Tree Maximums - Genus of the Week: Abies (fir)

Post by Will Blozan » Fri May 17, 2013 7:28 am

Matt Markworth wrote:Brian,

Thanks for the submissions. Do you have dates associated with the measurements and possibly CBH? If they're on private property, then it's understandable if you couldn't get CBH. Also, would you consider the European Silver Fir a "Not Less Than (NLT)" measurement?

- Matt
Matt,

Aside from perhaps the Nikko fir there are taller specimens for all species already measured by NTS. I guess I am hoping this list is not just the US- or at least remind us to think beyond our borders.

Will

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