Poor Europe!

Discussions and news related to invasive and exotic species affecting our trees and forests.

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jamesrobertsmith
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Poor Europe!

Post by jamesrobertsmith » Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:44 pm

We're not the only ones suffering through invasive species. North American mammals are wreaking their own brands of havoc in Europe.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/19474287

Joe

Re: Poor Europe!

Post by Joe » Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:40 am

oh, well- whatever "damage" invasive species cause- it's nothing compared to the damage to the planet caused by the "naked apes"
Joe

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jamesrobertsmith
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Re: Poor Europe!

Post by jamesrobertsmith » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:30 pm

Yeah, I'm always amused by comments such as "goats trampling the ground". We bloody CONSUME the ground.

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Don
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Re: Poor Europe!

Post by Don » Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:16 pm

jrs-
A couple of random 'trampling' memory traces...
Nuovo ranchers advocating use of cattle to 'trample' rehab sites to 'plant' seeds for better germination...
or
Grand Canyon National Park concerns about invading bison trampling Park plateaus, changing soil relations that evolved without the previous occupation by bison (nope, the bison were not native to North Kaibab Plateau)...
Don Bertolette - President/Moderator, WNTS BBS
Restoration Forester (Retired)
Science Center
Grand Canyon National Park

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View my Alaska Big Tree List Webpage at:
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PAwildernessadvocate
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Re: Poor Europe!

Post by PAwildernessadvocate » Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:17 pm

In the 1970s people in Japan became fascinated with raccoons because of some popular cartoon or something over there. They imported thousands of them because of this fad. Now they can't get rid of them!

http://www.japanprobe.com/2010/04/19/ra ... ese-temple
"There is no better way to save biodiversity than by preserving habitat, and no better habitat, species for species, than wilderness." --Edward O. Wilson

Joe

Re: Poor Europe!

Post by Joe » Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:52 pm

Don wrote:jrs-
A couple of random 'trampling' memory traces...
Nuovo ranchers advocating use of cattle to 'trample' rehab sites to 'plant' seeds for better germination...
or
Grand Canyon National Park concerns about invading bison trampling Park plateaus, changing soil relations that evolved without the previous occupation by bison (nope, the bison were not native to North Kaibab Plateau)...
Don, just curious, but is there a good reason why bison were not there?

Joe

Joe

Re: Poor Europe!

Post by Joe » Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:54 pm

PAwildernessadvocate wrote:In the 1970s people in Japan became fascinated with raccoons because of some popular cartoon or something over there. They imported thousands of them because of this fad. Now they can't get rid of them!

http://www.japanprobe.com/2010/04/19/ra ... ese-temple
well, maybe they should import coyotes to eat them! Of course they coyotes would then eat their cats and birds.
Joe

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Don
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Re: Poor Europe!

Post by Don » Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:54 pm

Joe-
That's a good question...my first thought was along biogeographical lines, with the Kaibab Plateau bisected by the Colorado River. But I know of no historical/prehistorical evidence of bison on the South Kaibab Plateau either.
There is scant rock art evidence of bison (and that is questioned, with regard to the nomadic nature of the prior indigenous cultures, i.e., were the rock artists imaging the bisons they may have known on the plains to the East?) in the area.
The vegetative communities that have evolved in the area won't be sustainable in the presence of today's introduced bison (actually there are 'beefalos' that have been bred since the early 1900's by early ranchers trying to genetically "toughen up" their cattle. Down in House Rock Valley, below the N. Kaibab Plateau they range freely (too much so for the Park wildlife biologists). About ten years ago, there was an effort to define the degree of 'buffalo-ness', and DNA samples were taken from the herd. While they for ALL intents and purposes APPEARED to be buffalo, by DNA they were 97% cow.
As the Above the Rim Vegetation Manager for Grand Canyon back then, the issues involved all of us. We monitored the soil impacts of their trampling, and impacts of their grazing on the vegetation. Additionally, they brought in invasive species from the House Rock range below, and dispersed them with their waste.
One last recall...to the north of the North Rim, the Kaibab National Forest had open parks (grassy lowlands that were at one time lakes) that cattle were permitted to graze. During one of my numerous trips to the North Rim, I was surprised to see a string of cattle following a well-defined trail, followed at the end by a bison calf, looking for all the world like it thought it was a cow. Now my early biology training brings 'imprinting' to mind, it was clear that neither the cattle nor the bison calf thought it odd.
Last comment...the dense, rich grasslands that supported the bison east of the Rockies, are currently rare in the Southwest (much more arid), and I don't think were present, probably since at least the last ice age (10,000-12,000 years ago).
Don Bertolette - President/Moderator, WNTS BBS
Restoration Forester (Retired)
Science Center
Grand Canyon National Park

BJCP Apprentice Beer Judge

View my Alaska Big Tree List Webpage at:
http://www.akbigtreelist.org

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edfrank
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Re: Poor Europe!

Post by edfrank » Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:22 pm

ORIGINAL RANGE. OF AMERICAN BISON. 1889 REPORT TO CONGRESS. BY WILLIAM HORNADAY

http://www.greateryellowstone.org/uploa ... on_map.pdf
bisonrange1889.JPG
.
"I love science and it pains me to think that so many are terrified of the subject or feel that choosing science means you cannot also choose compassion, or the arts, or be awe by nature. Science is not meant to cure us of mystery, but to reinvent and revigorate it." by Robert M. Sapolsky

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Don
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Re: Poor Europe!

Post by Don » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:28 pm

Ed-
Impressively quick access to what would appear to be a definitive map specific to our discussion!

That said, I'll quote from a Grand Canyon NP associated organization (http://www.grandcanyon.org/canyonviews/ ... ring10.pdf):

"Bison didn’t
naturally occur in the Grand Canyon region
with any regularity prior to their introduction
by cattle breeders at the turn of the twentieth
century. As introduced animals, they don’t
belong in this region."

The Hornaday map not withstanding, I'll continue to support the Park's biologists until I can access Hornaday's text...
Don Bertolette - President/Moderator, WNTS BBS
Restoration Forester (Retired)
Science Center
Grand Canyon National Park

BJCP Apprentice Beer Judge

View my Alaska Big Tree List Webpage at:
http://www.akbigtreelist.org

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