Changes in ground level

Native Tree Society Tree Measuring Guidelines and related materials.

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tsharp
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Changes in ground level

Post by tsharp » Sat Dec 12, 2015 4:56 am

Bob, Don, NTS:
The tree pictured below illustrates a situation in which the new measurement rules are silent and so are the old rules. I assume this will be corrected in future updates. Until then i wonder if my practice of calling the root collar "ground level" is appropriate. The choice of course affects both height and circumference.


Click on image to see its original size


Black Willow along the New River in West Virginia

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Rand
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Re: Changes in ground level

Post by Rand » Sat Dec 12, 2015 5:58 am

So... It looks like the ground level was raised, adventitious roots grew into it, and then it was washed away back to the original level again?

Not sure what type of rules would be appropriate to that situation.

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Will Blozan
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Re: Changes in ground level

Post by Will Blozan » Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:43 am

Turner,

Wild tree! I agree with Rand and in a case like this your best approximation would have to do. Ideally, a tree of champion status should have a reference point established (tack, nail) so subsequent measurements will be the same.

What would be really wild is if the tree had huge deposition around it and midslope was buried...

Will

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tsharp
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Re: Changes in ground level

Post by tsharp » Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:32 pm

Rand: Your supposition is correct. It has been buried and uncovered at least twice since the 90's.
Will: I have been measuring trees long enough now that i wish I had bench marked some of them. The few i have done so did not hold the tack for very long. I think I am gong to change over to a long aluminum roofing nail. What do you use.
But the question remains. I am justified in using the root collar as ground level?

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Rand
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Re: Changes in ground level

Post by Rand » Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:40 pm

Rand: Your supposition is correct. It has been buried and uncovered at least twice since the 90's.
Turner. Is it differing heights of floods that can alternately deposit and then wash away the same material?

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Bart Bouricius
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Re: Changes in ground level

Post by Bart Bouricius » Mon Dec 14, 2015 6:43 pm

Related to this, some common trees in Florida and some other Southeastern states have buttresses. They include some large Oaks, Cypress and a couple of fig species for starters. Are there yet rules pertaining to this situation?

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tsharp
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Re: Changes in ground level

Post by tsharp » Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:43 pm

Rand:
Yes, but probably a better term would be river flow expressed in cubic feet per second (CFS ) instead of dept/height. The site probably floods one or two times a year. Late summer flows are usually 4-5,000 cfs, spring flows 25-45,000 cfs are common and up to 100,000 cfs in unusual weather events. Deposition occurs around 20,000 cfs and the the site scours above 50,000cfs

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tsharp
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Re: Changes in ground level

Post by tsharp » Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:08 pm

Bart: The new Tree Measuring guidelines do not address this issue. My understanding is you measure circumference at 4 1/2' as long it is not an abnormal growth for the species. However, It would not surprise me if Bob and Don are working overtime to address this measurement situation. I personally believe their are a number of species that special rules will have to apply.
How would you address the measurement of such trees to arrive at a fair way to compare different individuals of the same species?

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Larry Tucei
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Re: Changes in ground level

Post by Larry Tucei » Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:33 am

Turner- Wild tree! I think the Aluminum nail might be the way to go and or metal tag with CBH, and height. I should be doing something of the same on the Champion trees. I like the idea of maybe a number ID on them also. I got to thinking when we measure hundreds of trees it would be great to catalog them with a number, as well as GPS and so on. Matt talked about this is a past post. I have started measuring trees above the Buttress since Bart mentioned it a few years ago. I note where I measured them say 6', 7' above ground and so on. Perhaps in the future where to measure Cir. NTS have talked about this before one type of measurement does not fit all. Larry

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Bart Bouricius
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Re: Changes in ground level

Post by Bart Bouricius » Wed Dec 16, 2015 1:56 pm

Larry,

I noticed your change, and I think for now, that recording above buttress circumference and CBH could be helpful. One problem is that in using above buttress height, it gives a disadvantage to species that have buttresses. Even worse, I measured two large Kapock trees Ceiba pentandra at 198' each, but the much smaller one in volume had buttresses to only about 10 feet, while the huge volume one had buttresses up to 45'. Never the less, circumference above the buttresses is certainly better than CBH for these trees, but I hope some genius comes up with a solution other than measuring all the volumes. I have included an image of a Wild Cashew which also has problems related to periodic flooding.
Wild cashew (Anacardium excelsum)
Wild cashew (Anacardium excelsum)

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