Arborists and Recreational Tree Climbers

Information about the Native Tree Society organization itself http://www.nativetreesociety.org including meetings, events, and operations.
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edfrank
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Arborists and Recreational Tree Climbers

Post by edfrank » Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:28 pm

NTS,

Some of you are professional arborists, others are recreational tree climbers. What can we do as a group to attract more arborists and tree climbers to the Native Tree Society? What can we offer them via the Native Tree Society that they would find worthwhile ? There is enormous potential from our perspective in terms of getting more tree age data, more volume modeling, more canopy studies from these group. One Arborist group on Facebook has 1,365 members. There are many groups for recreational tree climbers. What projects can we devise, or actions we can take to attract these people to the NTS?

Ed
"I love science and it pains me to think that so many are terrified of the subject or feel that choosing science means you cannot also choose compassion, or the arts, or be awe by nature. Science is not meant to cure us of mystery, but to reinvent and revigorate it." by Robert M. Sapolsky

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AndrewJoslin
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Re: Arborists and Recreational Tree Climbers

Post by AndrewJoslin » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:08 pm

Beyond the shared appreciation for trees and the forest I think what the ENTS are offering to technical tree climbers rec or pro, (and non-climbing tree care professionals) is an awareness that accurate measuring/modeling of trees is an important and useful skill, and much more precise than they may have previously thought. Tree climbers are people too (joke) and there's a huge variation within that group as to interest or lack of interest in the primary concerns of the ENTS as an organization. However within that group there's going to be a much higher percentage of folks than the general population who might find the ENTS mission worthwhile.

So... to follow up that barely intelligible paragraph, I think on a very basic level, organizing tree measuring workshops for tree care professionals and their organizations would make a lot of sense. And the same for rec climbers and their organizations.

As many of you are aware there is some natural tension between forest scientists/tree measurers and rec climbers. Scientists and dedicated tree measurers generally are not happy to have rec climbers mine their tree lists and locations for the opportunity to climb the tallest or most exceptional/incredible trees. I think most of this kind of friction can be avoided/reduced with discussion and consciousness raising. Reality is most rec climbers that I know who actually like to climb in real forest conditions are very sensitive to impact issues. Speaking for myself as a rec climber and tree measurer, I'm absolutely uninterested in climbing the tallest or most notable tree/species in this or that state, country or the world. I'm happy to assist the ENTS on whatever tree they would like to do manual measuring, if it happens to the "tallest", whatever, so be it. More discussion is needed on this issue, it can get polarized fast but I don't think it needs to be.
-Andrew

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edfrank
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Re: Arborists and Recreational Tree Climbers

Post by edfrank » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:36 pm

Andrew,

Thanks for the response. I hope some other people will chime in as well.

Ed
"I love science and it pains me to think that so many are terrified of the subject or feel that choosing science means you cannot also choose compassion, or the arts, or be awe by nature. Science is not meant to cure us of mystery, but to reinvent and revigorate it." by Robert M. Sapolsky

Amy69
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Re: Arborists and Recreational Tree Climbers

Post by Amy69 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:06 pm

AndrewJoslin wrote:As many of you are aware there is some natural tension between forest scientists/tree measurers and rec climbers. Scientists and dedicated tree measurers generally are not happy to have rec climbers mine their tree lists and locations for the opportunity to climb the tallest or most exceptional/incredible trees. I think most of this kind of friction can be avoided/reduced with discussion and consciousness raising. Reality is most rec climbers that I know who actually like to climb in real forest conditions are very sensitive to impact issues.
-Andrew
I would definitely agree, eliminating some of this tension would be a good first step! How to do it though, I am not sure. I understand it's not a huge thing, but we should all be able to enjoy nature in our own ways, whether through scientific research, or just plain old fun :)
Last edited by Amy69 on Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Bart Bouricius
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Re: Arborists and Recreational Tree Climbers

Post by Bart Bouricius » Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:24 am

I would agree with Andrew that hosting workshops that are advertised through the trade association and certification organizations would be a good way to reach out to arborists. Making presentations to classes at Universities, Colleges and vocational schools that have arborist programs would, I think, be helpful as well.

For recreational tree climbers I think it would be effective to go straight to the organizations and ask them to sponsor a climbing event where tree measuring methods could be learned. I also think the tallest tree of greatest dimensions is not always the tree that is the most beautiful and appealing from a fun climbing perspective. That said, I suspect there will always be some tension in the few cases where some random person decides they have to climb the tallest tree because it is the tallest. I think one way to avoid such problems is to not make precise locations to easily available and thus require people to contact ENTS folks who will try to educate them about the issues involved before considering such a climb. Many of the tallest trees are not exactly easy to get to nor fun to climb as it requires a large amount of time and planning to get to these locations with appropriate gear. Not something one does on the spur of the moment after too many beers.

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pdbrandt
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Re: Arborists and Recreational Tree Climbers

Post by pdbrandt » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:20 pm

AndrewJoslin wrote:... I'm happy to assist the ENTS on whatever tree they would like to do manual measuring, if it happens to the "tallest", whatever, so be it. More discussion is needed on this issue, it can get polarized fast but I don't think it needs to be.
-Andrew
I'm a relatively new (4 months old) rec tree climber and even newer to NTS, but I am happy to say that I haven't ever sensed any animosity between arborists/NTS/and recreational tree climbers. Of course, I'm an isolated climber and only interact with other tree afficionados on forums like this so my experience is limited. I couldn't agree more with Andrew's comment above. Curiosity and appreciation for trees is what first got me into the canopy, but from the moment of my first climb, I wanted to find answers about the physical limitations on tree size, how other animals, insects, and plants utilize forest trees, when the trees folliate, defolliate, species identification and range, etc. I first found the american forest big tree database and point notation system. That gave me another "excuse" to visit prominent trees in my town and along my commute to record their point value. Then a friend on the Big Tree Hunters Facebook group (Tom Robinson) pointed me to NTS. I feel right at home here. I don't have a clinometer and rangefinder, but I love reading the posts from tree lovers of all stripes. My current self imposed tree project is learning about the hemi-parasitic relationship between mistletoe and eastern hardwoods. I hope to climb a couple of mistletoe infested trees and report back with some pictures and my observations.
Patrick

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AndrewJoslin
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Re: Arborists and Recreational Tree Climbers

Post by AndrewJoslin » Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:38 pm

pdbrandt wrote:I'm a relatively new (4 months old) rec tree climber and even newer to NTS, but I am happy to say that I haven't ever sensed any animosity between arborists/NTS/and recreational tree climbers. Of course, I'm an isolated climber and only interact with other tree afficionados on forums like this so my experience is limited.
Patrick there is not serious animosity, but it goes with the territory that some forest biologists may not think too highly of people who "just climb for fun", likewise between pro arborists and rec climbers. This is a broad generalization, there are many good relationships between members of these various groups. Main challenge for tall tree researchers is they don't want climbers of any stripe mining (no pun intended) their tall tree lists for rec climb locations. This is very reasonable, especially for the tallest trees on the planet or per state in the U.S. There is significant demand to visit or climb these trees, with that comes high potential for damage (ground cover destruction, soil compression, canopy epiphyte disruption,damage to a tree, etc.) from multiple ground or climber visits per year to the most notable tall trees.

I think it's important for rec climbers to recognize that there are good reasons to question whether or not a given tree should be climbed, and that there are "stakeholders" concerned about it.
-AJ

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Don
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Re: Arborists and Recreational Tree Climbers

Post by Don » Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:42 pm

NTS-ers all-
Early on in the rise of ENTS, then Wnts, the need for data security was recognized. Myself, an advocate for a common database with controls for access, seemingly counter-intuitively also was an advocate for accurate, standardized GPS location.
We should by all means establish a standard for access to GPS-ed locations/specific listings, limited to our active tree-measuring cadre, science-based researchers, and such.
It is my feeling that we should not be in the business of supplying opportunities for recreational access. As a retired National Park Service employee, I have seen the results of A public 'loving a park to death'.
Time to draw a line...
Don
Don Bertolette - President/Moderator, WNTS BBS
Restoration Forester (Retired)
Science Center
Grand Canyon National Park

BJCP Apprentice Beer Judge

View my Alaska Big Tree List Webpage at:
http://www.akbigtreelist.org

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