Why Aren't Women More Active in ENTS?

Information about the Native Tree Society organization itself http://www.nativetreesociety.org including meetings, events, and operations.
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James Parton
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Re: Why Aren't Women More Active in ENTS?

Post by James Parton » Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:37 am

The OBOD Druid Grove Forum uses the same BBS format and provider that ENTS does and female participation is common there. I don't see the BBS format intimidating women.
James E Parton
Ovate Course Graduate - Druid Student
Bardic Mentor
New Order of Druids

http://www.druidcircle.org/nod/index.ph ... Itemid=145

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dbhguru
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Re: Why Aren't Women More Active in ENTS?

Post by dbhguru » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:29 am

James and others,

I think the answer goes deeper than Internet media format or presentation. Not being a women, I hesitate to theorize too much. But, heck, I'll throw caution to the wind for a while and speculate. First, let me make clear that I hold our women Ents in the highest esteem. I think the ladies provide critical balance and depth to ENTS. This said, I do have a feeling that women are less compulsively about reducing everything to a set of measurements and numbers with announced winners and losers. I believe the competitive instinct is so much a part of the male personality that we're unconsciously competitive when we'd swear that not to be the case. This leads to lots of measurements, and in our case, the an incessant drive to up the Rucker.

I believe that women go in more for the qualitative as opposed to the quantitative. They can be quantitative, if they so choose, but often see less reason for it than we do for the reasons we proclaim. Hunting down big and/or tall trees IS hunting. Still, I'd like to have more women into measuring, for a more important reason. We need the data. It is often through the data that we are able to distinguish a forest as special, and get others on board with us to help protect it. That is really the bottom line story, the most important reason for going to great lengths to document the biggest and tallest through numbers.

The active forest management paradigm invariably reduces forests to a young age. People who believe otherwise are deluding themselves. The biggest and oldest trees disappear, and trees are reduced to human-sized numbers. Consequently, our efforts are constantly needed to remind people of what forests once were and should be again. I use this justification for my numbers frequently in pointing out the differences between the old growth and mature second growth forests that I move in relative to the younger forests of properties like the huge Quabbin reservoir in central Massachusetts. Lots of people have grown up hiking in Quabbin and have come to see those forests as the standard. When they walk in Monroe SF with me, they are blown away. What, trees like these in Massachusetts?

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

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adam.rosen
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Re: Why Aren't Women More Active in ENTS?

Post by adam.rosen » Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:46 am

My wife and daughters are always up for little detours to see trees with me, and my kids like to help me measure or estimate (provided they are in a good mood), but this business of quantifying, measuring, comparing, seeking champions--well, isn't all that stuff pretty masculine? (like, think Freud). What else can be done when we see an awesome tree? Measuring it is one way to experience it. Photographing is tricky, though some of you guys are getting really good (Bob!). I think that there are other ways to experience a tree, that don't translate well into this forum. For example,

Sometimes I try to think--what was happening when this tree started growing? Who was here? For large urban trees, garden trees and yard trees, who planted it? Who tended it?

One of my favorite trees is a Swamp White Oak at Naumkeag, a Gilded Age Mansion in Lennox, MA. The man who comissioned the house picnicked with his family under this tree in the 1860's, and decided to build their summer home on the spot. Sure, my energy could go into measuring the tree--maybe it's in the state top five, maybe not--but I could also imagine the story of how that tree touched a life--maybe that's a prompt for a journal entry (private entry--not a blog post!). There's lots to ways to deepen our understanding of trees, but I suspect the measurement orientation of ENTS is more appealing to men. Relena? What do you think?

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dbhguru
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Re: Why Aren't Women More Active in ENTS?

Post by dbhguru » Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:25 am

Adam,

Good points. Yes, absolutely, there are lots of meaningful ways to relate to trees. From a big picture standpoint, measuring their dimensions is a lesser important one.

I have considered the Freudian explanation of our measuring obsession. Embarrassing, but probably closer to the underlying forces at work. This said, you'd think we'd get a few female measurers to participate. Maybe after our initial sales pitch, they sense it is a Freudian thing and shy away. We understand, ladies.

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

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edfrank
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Re: Why Aren't Women More Active in ENTS?

Post by edfrank » Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:13 pm

Adam you wrote:
One of my favorite trees is a Swamp White Oak at Naumkeag, a Gilded Age Mansion in Lennox, MA. The man who comissioned the house picnicked with his family under this tree in the 1860's, and decided to build their summer home on the spot. Sure, my energy could go into measuring the tree--maybe it's in the state top five, maybe not--but I could also imagine the story of how that tree touched a life--maybe that's a prompt for a journal entry (private entry--not a blog post!). There's lots to ways to deepen our understanding of trees, but I suspect the measurement orientation of ENTS is more appealing to men. Relena? What do you think?
I would be interested in reading an account of the life of this tree. I have tried to encourage others to undertake such a tree biography in the past, but have not found an appropriate subject for such an essay myself. We have taken small steps at looking at the long term relationships of a particular tree with an individual or a family. I posted comments made about the death of Hebie - a large elm tree that finally died in Maine from disease. Steve Galehouse and others have posted images of a single tree taken thirty years apart. There have been comparisons of historical photographs with the same view from today. There have been accounts of individual encounters with trees that have inspired people. But nobody has yet undertaken a look at a long term or multi-generational relationship with a single tree in terms of family ties and relationships and historical context. Perhpaps is is not so much generations of a family or a series of people taking care of a tree, so much as a tree raising multiple generations of people.

Ed
"I love science and it pains me to think that so many are terrified of the subject or feel that choosing science means you cannot also choose compassion, or the arts, or be awe by nature. Science is not meant to cure us of mystery, but to reinvent and revigorate it." by Robert M. Sapolsky

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Lisa
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Re: Why Aren't Women More Active in ENTS?

Post by Lisa » Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:12 am

I have been following this post and have been giving it some thought. I don't have a simple answer and certainly could not speak for all women. For myself, however, I am less interested in the exactness of the height measurements (and all the instruments used to obtain them) and more interested in things like the ecosystem, health of the trrees or new findings. I have felt intimidated by the effort and documentation involved in obtaining the measurements and do not feel qualified to comment on them. With that said, however, I do have a deep appreciation for the attention brought to certain trees and stands based on the measurements obtained. I recognize that it is a way of paying attention to and honoring the trees. It's just not a way that I feel connected to .

Lisa

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dbhguru
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Re: Why Aren't Women More Active in ENTS?

Post by dbhguru » Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:37 am

Lisa,

I certainly understand where you are coming from. Monica feels just as you do, and she's very connected to the trees, as are you. However, Monica gets overloaded with my deluges of numbers, and so I have to turn off the spigot when were on walks together to give her breathing room.

I just don't want the lady Ents to ever feel excluded, or think that the good old boys think they have a monopoly on tree measuring skills. In past battle of the sexes, men often asserted that their sex was superior in math skills. I think that is pure baloney, regardless of where primary interests may lie.

It is true that we began ENTS primarily as a group of tree measurers, and there continues to be a heavy focus on measuring. But whether it is intense measuring, broader questions of science, photography, art, mythology, etc., we just want the women to play a major role in NTS, ENTS, WNTS, whatever we call it.

Hey, when is Gary going to cook us some of his famous ribs? We'd love to get together with you all.

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

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edfrank
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Re: Why Aren't Women More Active in ENTS?

Post by edfrank » Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:39 pm

Bob, NTS

There are physiological differences between men's and women's brains. The generalities do not apply for a specific individual, but there are general statements that can be said about each group. It is true that overall men as a group do a better job with spacial recognition and mathematics, while women do better with facial recognition and verbalization skills. I do not want to see this discussion trapped by male sexism and ego, but I also do not want to see the discussion inhibited by factually inaccurate political correctness. The minor differences however are not sufficient to account for the disparity between the number of posts by women and the number of posts by men.

Ed
"I love science and it pains me to think that so many are terrified of the subject or feel that choosing science means you cannot also choose compassion, or the arts, or be awe by nature. Science is not meant to cure us of mystery, but to reinvent and revigorate it." by Robert M. Sapolsky

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edfrank
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Re: Why Aren't Women More Active in ENTS?

Post by edfrank » Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:09 pm

Amy,
I don't have exactly what you are looking for, but for our publication in Tree-Ring Research (see full citation below), we identified the ITRDB forum as having 70% of the members male and 30% female and at the International Tree-Ring Conference in Beijing, attendees 72% were male and 28% female.

Copenheaver, C.A., Goldbeck, K., and Cherubini, P. 2010. Lack of gender bias in citation rates of publications by dendrochronologists: What is unique about this discipline. Tree-Ring Research 66(2):127-133.

Hope this helps,
Carolyn

Carolyn Copenheaver
Associate Professor
Department of Forest Resources and Environmental Conservation
Virginia Tech
Blacksburg, VA 24061

----------------------------------------------------------------
From: ITRDB Dendrochronology Forum [ITRDBFOR@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Amy Hessl [Amy.Hessl@MAIL.WVU.EDU]
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 11:18 AM
To: ITRDBFOR@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: male vs female PhDs

Does anyone have data on the number of male vs female PhDs in dendrochronology, particularly in the last decade? Split out by country?


Amy E. Hessl
Associate Chair, Geography
Department of Geology and Geography
West Virginia University
Morgantown, WV 26506

.
"I love science and it pains me to think that so many are terrified of the subject or feel that choosing science means you cannot also choose compassion, or the arts, or be awe by nature. Science is not meant to cure us of mystery, but to reinvent and revigorate it." by Robert M. Sapolsky

nick123
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Re: Why Aren't Women More Active in ENTS?

Post by nick123 » Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:27 am

Very very good question. i am also very worried why women are not active in forums and ENTS. We want to see them beside us in every field. Really women play an important role in every field and we want to see them here as well. Even in this forum you can see only a few participants are here.

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