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Nikon Coolshot 80i VR

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:17 am
by KoutaR
Has anybody tried Nikon Coolshot 80i VR ?
https://www.nikon.co.uk/en_GB/product/d ... hot-80i-vr

A German measurer who previously measured with Nikon Forestry Pro, said me he uses today only 80i VR (he sold his Forestry Pro). 80i VR has a stabilisator. The accuracy of 80i VR is not very good but the German man said if you look through 80i VR the view is almost as stabil as if it was on a tripod.

Re: Nikon Coolshot 80i VR

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:42 am
by dbhguru
Kouta,

I wonder what the fellow means by 'not very accurate'. Is the talking about accuracy within +/- 1.5 feet, +/- 1.0 feet, etc.? Accuracy at the yard level would be a waste. Two main problems with the Nikon line is not being able to ignore foreground clutter (the old 440 could) and inconsistency, i.e. lack of precision on distant targets with sky behind.

LTI will soon release the long awaited TruPulse 200h, which will include both a phase-based and pulse-based lasers. The phase-based has milli-meter level accuracy and the pulse-based has centimeter level accuracy. It is a very small unit, but its viewfinder is only 2-power. Nevertheless, I plan to get one. I used a beta-release version last summer and liked it a lot. It costs about the same as the TruPoint 300, which is more versatile, but has only phase-based laser.


Bob

Re: Nikon Coolshot 80i VR

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:09 pm
by Rand
dbhguru wrote:Kouta,
LTI will soon release the long awaited TruPulse 200h, which will include both a phase-based and pulse-based lasers. The phase-based has milli-meter level accuracy and the pulse-based has centimeter level accuracy. It is a very small unit, but its viewfinder is only 2-power. Nevertheless, I plan to get one. I used a beta-release version last summer and liked it a lot. It costs about the same as the TruPoint 300, which is more versatile, but has only phase-based laser.
You forgot to explain the pluses and minus of the two types for the philistines in the studio audience. I'm assuming one is better at ignoring clutter, but do tell.

Re: Nikon Coolshot 80i VR

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:48 am
by KoutaR
Bob,

'not very accurate' was just my conclusion from the specifications and in comparison with LTI lasers.

I measured formerly with Nikon 550 and I never found the clutter-penetration a problem. For me, the biggest problem was the wildly jumping clinometer. The stabilisator could solve this problem. The price is about the same as that of Nikon Forestry Pro.

Kouta

Re: Nikon Coolshot 80i VR

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:03 am
by Erik Danielsen
I would not be certain of that yet- Nikon has extensive experience in stabilizing optics (as I've appreciated in their VR camera lenses as well), and this technology is what would result in a more stable view through the eyepiece, and this is what might improve accuracy in SD measurements in reducing problems created by handshake. However the clinometer is a separate component and it is not indicated whether it is stabilized as well or not. From a design perspective, I don't think there's a way to directly stabilize the clinometer against handshake- it's supposed to indicate the actual inclination of the instrument, and that is directly changed by handshake. Perhaps if the raw reading from the clinometer is compensated with readings from the gyro sensors that are stabilizing the optics, so that the displayed reading is actually calculated to indicate the angle of the target in the stabilized viewfinder? I think I'd want more information about what the unit is doing internally before interpreting that this should result in more accurate clinometer readings.

Re: Nikon Coolshot 80i VR

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:21 am
by KoutaR
Erik, that's true - I did not think about that. I will ask the German measurer what he thinks about this.

Kouta

Re: Nikon Coolshot 80i VR

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:37 am
by Don
Erik-
Reasonable questions all. Plus, if my understanding of how image stabilization works, it's the "averaging of pixels with the least difference over all" which suggests that there is some accuracy lost in the averaging process...bound to be thoroughly statistical, and subject to confidence levels, etc.
-Don

Re: Nikon Coolshot 80i VR

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:10 pm
by Erik Danielsen
Don, that is a method some cheap cameras and cellphones use (it can be done better later by software that performs R-L Deconvolution sharpening, like RAWtherapee). The stabilization technology in higher end photo gear (and specifically designated by the "VR" branding in Nikon products like this) relies on gyroscopic sensors and motors to physically move elements of the optics to compensate for hand movement (other manufacturers use technology that shifts the image sensor chip instead). From the product page it's not even clear whether the VR tech is active just for the viewfinder optics for the benefit of the user experience, or also stabilizes the rangefinding optics to reduce missed targets.

Re: Nikon Coolshot 80i VR

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:18 pm
by KoutaR
Well, I asked the German man. He says Erik is right. It is only the optics that is stabilized. Laser & clinometer are not. That should actually be clear, I just didn't think far enough. However, he says it is easier to measure handheld. The results also vary less than those by Forestry Pro (likely due to a better clinometer).

Another question to Bob et al.: Have you tried Haglöfs lasers? E.e. Vertex Laser Geo should be an highly accurate instrument.