Resurgence of Dendromorphometry

General discussions of measurement techniques and the results of testing of techniques and equipment.

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Don
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Re: Resurgence of Dendromorphometry

Post by Don » Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:51 pm

Bob-
For those unfamiliar with your new toy Gizmo, I thought there might be some that would be interested in more about it.
Go to:
http://www.bushnell.com/hunting/spottin ... r-tactical
for a gander. It does have some advantages over our 8 x 36 reticled monocular.
-Don

Making allowances for the less than perfect image, the reticle is very clear. As with the Vortex, there are separate focuses for image and reticle.

Bob[/quote]
Don Bertolette - President/Moderator, WNTS BBS
Restoration Forester (Retired)
Science Center
Grand Canyon National Park

BJCP Apprentice Beer Judge

View my Alaska Big Tree List Webpage at:
http://www.akbigtreelist.org

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Larry Tucei
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Re: Resurgence of Dendromorphometry

Post by Larry Tucei » Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:25 am

Hi- Bob great work! I don't see anything on Multi-Trunk measurement on your listing. Larry

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Erik Danielsen
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Re: Resurgence of Dendromorphometry

Post by Erik Danielsen » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:51 pm

"Elliptical Slanted Conical Frustum" sounds interesting, but do you mean to tell me you don't have an "elliptical slanted nieloid frustum wherein the wide axis twists to be perpendicular at the top relative to its orientation at the base" formula yet?

Kidding, of course. Though I think I have met a couple trees where that would be applicable!

This does sound like a very solid and complete resource. Is it intended essentially as a technical manual? Or would it be fun to pepper it with anecdotes from ENTSers who have found themselves on the wrong side of the subject being discussed and had to learn how to do things correctly, as teaching illustrations?

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dbhguru
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Re: Resurgence of Dendromorphometry

Post by dbhguru » Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:03 pm

Erik,

BVP intends to add some of hus world-class drawings to replace my rinky dink Excel diagrams. Thank God!

I’m unsure how many advanced methods we’ll include, but I expect they’ll be driven by emphasis on volume.

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

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bribroder
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Re: Resurgence of Dendromorphometry

Post by bribroder » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:44 pm

Hey all,

Just wanted to mention that I work with Python and a bit of R in my day job and would be happy to contribute toward your effort in whatever way suits you--your assessment of the relative difficulty of the two languages is 100% accurate, R has a wealth of advanced tools but for simple math like this formula it offers no benefit. As an example, here is the reticle formula you mention above as you would write it in Python--this particular example is trivial and not much different from your BASIC or FORTRAN days, but the code can be much clearer/expressive and less terse:

def estimate_diameter(distance, milliradians):
optical_factor = 1000.0 - 0.5 * milliradians
return distance * milliradians / optical factor

estimate_diameter(20, 60)



Brian

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dbhguru
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Re: Resurgence of Dendromorphometry

Post by dbhguru » Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:00 pm

Brian,

I hear you. Thanks very much for the offer. I would be very interested in conversing with your further. However, it would best be done through private emails exchanges. You can reach me at dbhguru@comcast.net. If you send me an email communication, I can outline what we have in mind.

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

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M.W.Taylor
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Re: Resurgence of Dendromorphometry

Post by M.W.Taylor » Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:21 am

dbhguru wrote:Larry, et. al.,

Bob Van Pelt recently sent Lee Frelich and me a sample of the photogrammetry techniques he used to model the Grizzly Giant. Impressive!! Bob will probably include some of his methodology in the book.

Lee suggested that computationally intense methods in the book be coded into R, a programming language for scientists. Looking at R, I think it has a steep learning curve. For example, if we are in a language like FOTRAN or BASIC and we wanted in encode one of the reticle formulas, it might look like:

M = 20
D = 60
W = (M*D)/(1000-0.5*M)
PRINT W

In R, we might have something like the following

W<-function(M,D) {(M*D)/(1000-0.5*M)
W(20,60)

Bob

Bob, it great to see you working on coding these often messy formulas and taking tree measurement to the next level. I personally would prefer Python because I have worked with it before, but I will try to work with R if available. I have not used it before. Are you still coding with SmartBasic ?

What about having Dendromorphometry on an Ebook that runs the code for you ? I wonder how hard this would be to do ?
Last edited by M.W.Taylor on Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:34 am, edited 4 times in total.

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M.W.Taylor
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Re: Resurgence of Dendromorphometry

Post by M.W.Taylor » Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:26 am

dbhguru wrote:Doug,

Having jumped into R, I would have to agree with your brother. I'm inclined to jump back out. R is extremely involved. It will require a steep learning curve, and it looks to me like lots of fairly limited tasks require obscure processes with strange syntax. At some high level of functional, the features may be efficient, but not at a low computational level. Its power is in advanced statistical analysis. So, I'm really unsure of why we'd want to use it. Besides, it takes a special aptitude to learn complex computer languages. You can go only so far on your own.

Mario,

So far all the work we've done has been volunteer. Finishing this new draft will probably require the efforts of an expert to insure the layout is acceptable to Cambridge Press. I expect we're going to have to pay someone to do that. In addition, despite what I said above, if we go with the R language to code our computational algorithms, I would expect to hire some one to do that - especially now that I've had a taste of R.

All

Presently, we have about 150 pages worth of material. I don't think the book needs to grow much beyond that, however, that will not be my decision alone. My next task is to break it all down into very specific topics so that we can make decisions on exactly what to include versus not. For example, we have a reticle-based method for computing the diameter of a leaning trunk. It was motivated by problems that MichaelTaylor was tackling. That would be a specific topic, as opposed to just a topic entitled reticle measurement. We have measurement compensations for tripod swivel. That needs to be a separate topic for purposes of deciding final inclusion/exclusion.

Bob
Bob, I'll code any of this in VB for the fun of it. If interested get back to me.

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dbhguru
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Re: Resurgence of Dendromorphometry

Post by dbhguru » Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:11 pm

Michael,

Sorry for taking so long to respond. I'm a bit overwhelmed these days. Yes, I still code in SmartBasic. As for Visual Basic, I'd love to have routines coded in that language also and available to our members. I coded in VB for years until I left the OPC world for MAC. I'm rusty, but can do some VBA for Excel. MAC once agin offers a limited version, but Maybe we should discuss this through regular email. Probably the best way.

Opportunities continue to develop around an NTS role in measuring the carbon content in big trees via the volume modeling route - for ground-truthing missions. So far, members who I think are interested follow:

1. Erik Danielsen
2. Elijah Whitcomb
3. Larry Tucei
4. Jared Lockwood
5. John Eichholz
6. Michael Taylor
7. Dale Luthringer
8. Don Bertolette
9. Bob Leverett

I apologize if I've missed anyone who has responded at some point in the past, indicating an interest. Some I I expect have the subject on their radar include Matt Markworth, Turner Sharp, Jess Riddle, Doug Bidlack, Brian Beduhn, and Joshua Harkness. Again I apologize if I've left anyone out. Here I'm taking about just those who measure trees.

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

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