Resurgence of Dendromorphometry

General discussions of measurement techniques and the results of testing of techniques and equipment.

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dbhguru
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Resurgence of Dendromorphometry

Post by dbhguru » Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:18 am

Ents,

In January 2010 a group of 5 of us ( Lee Frelich, Bob Van Pelt, Don Bragg, Will Blozan, and yours truly) began a project to write a book explaining all of our tree-measuring methods. We adopted the name dendromorphoetry (originally from Gary Beluzo) to describe what we in NTS were doing, which could be described as pushing the envelope. We had adopted sine-based measuring back in the mid-1990s, and had perfected the method to include comparing it with the traditional Tangent Method. We adopted in reticle-based monocular to measure diameters at a distance, and more recently, photographic measuring. Our perfecting of volume-measuring methods has been a big part of our more recent efforts. We also have done a lot of equipment testing over the years, and I continue adding new equipment items to my inventory.

On the original project, it was left up to me to produce a draft, which I did, but we never quite got our act together after that in terms of completing the book. The project languished. The book was put on hold as we continued developing new measurement methods, but there was never a combined commitment to finish the project. Time passed and here we are in 2018.

Over the weekend I was speaking to Lee Frelich over the phone. I was bemoaning the fact that we have developed all these excellent tree-measuring methods and have accumulated a mountain of data, and neither is having the impact that it should. We still see people in the scientific fields like ecology and forestry professionals using the older measurement methods. We still see resistance to them updating their methods. Well, as I continued complaining in our phone conversation, out of the blue, Lee said why don't we finish the dendromorphometry book. He had always seen merit in the work. So, in a flash, dendromorphometry was reborn. We then iscussed at length on how to proceed. Lee has people at Cambridge Press who want him to author another book, so getting a publisher is not an issue.

I plan to begin updating old material and adding new to bring all our measuring methods under one cover. We'll have a new team, and I'm not sure who all will be aboard. But the project once again has legs. I'll keep the BBS updated as we go.

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

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pattyjenkins1
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Re: Resurgence of Dendromorphometry

Post by pattyjenkins1 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:03 am

Bob and Lee,
You might consider doing your book as an ebook, which gives you the capability of adding and editing, as needed; also makes it more accessible vis-a-vis reach and cost.
Patty
Patty Jenkins
Executive Director
Tree Climbers International, Inc.
Get High / Climb Trees

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dbhguru
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Re: Resurgence of Dendromorphometry

Post by dbhguru » Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:57 am

Patty,

Thanks for the insightful suggestion. It makes sense to me. I'll mention your suggestion to Lee. He will choose the method of publication. However, I expect he will go with Cambridge Press - pretty prestigious. BTW, Bob Van Pelt will be a coauthor. We communicated yesterday afternoon, and he's on board.

The amount of work facing us now is considerable, but I have to admit, for me, it is a labor of love. It is where I've always seen NTS's strengths. I thoroughly enjoy all posts, especially the photography and alerts on the latest scientific research that come from Lucas. But while we are just an Internet interest group, we still stand almost unique in our documentation of exceptional forest sites and in developing measurement methods that can be applied by a wide range of interested measurers.

The level of interest in serious individual tree measuring is admittedly not high, even in NTS, but the job is still there to be done, and we remain well positioned to do it. We currently have 8 methods for using the monocular with reticle to measure trunk and limb diameters at a distance. Who else has that? The sheer amount of effort that we've put into tree measuring should not be scattered across obscure Internet emails and posts.

Enough pontificating. I've been spending more time with Gizmo, my new Bushnell monocular. It is one sweet instrument despite its slight reduction in accuracy. I quickly tried to capture what you see through the lens using my iPhone. Here is my fledgling effort. If you expand the image twice, the reticle is clear as a bell against the trunk.
image_01 (3).jpg
Making allowances for the less than perfect image, the reticle is very clear. As with the Vortex, there are separate focuses for image and reticle.

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

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Larry Tucei
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Re: Resurgence of Dendromorphometry

Post by Larry Tucei » Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:51 am

Bob- It's great that you are continuing the Book with everyone onboard. You and others have contributed so much in the world of accurate tree measurements. Look forward to the publication-Congratulations. Larry

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dbhguru
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Re: Resurgence of Dendromorphometry

Post by dbhguru » Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:34 pm

Larry, et. al.,

Bob Van Pelt recently sent Lee Frelich and me a sample of the photogrammetry techniques he used to model the Grizzly Giant. Impressive!! Bob will probably include some of his methodology in the book.

Lee suggested that computationally intense methods in the book be coded into R, a programming language for scientists. Looking at R, I think it has a steep learning curve. For example, if we are in a language like FOTRAN or BASIC and we wanted in encode one of the reticle formulas, it might look like:

M = 20
D = 60
W = (M*D)/(1000-0.5*M)
PRINT W

In R, we might have something like the following

W<-function(M,D) {(M*D)/(1000-0.5*M)
W(20,60)

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

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DougBidlack
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Re: Resurgence of Dendromorphometry

Post by DougBidlack » Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:49 pm

Bob,

my brother has convinced me to learn Python over R. I've never actually learned a programming language before but I very much want to learn to analyze my own data using the best possible language. According to my brother Python is easier to learn than R and there isn't a better language for data analysis.

Doug

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mdvaden
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Re: Resurgence of Dendromorphometry

Post by mdvaden » Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:05 am

Is this a project you would need funding for? Or something the few of you can publish on your own?
M. D. Vaden of Oregon = http://www.mdvaden.com

200 Pages - Coast Redwoods - http://www.mdvaden.com/grove_of_titans.shtml

Portraits & Weddings - http://www.vadenphotography.com

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dbhguru
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Re: Resurgence of Dendromorphometry

Post by dbhguru » Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:07 am

Doug,

Having jumped into R, I would have to agree with your brother. I'm inclined to jump back out. R is extremely involved. It will require a steep learning curve, and it looks to me like lots of fairly limited tasks require obscure processes with strange syntax. At some high level of functional, the features may be efficient, but not at a low computational level. Its power is in advanced statistical analysis. So, I'm really unsure of why we'd want to use it. Besides, it takes a special aptitude to learn complex computer languages. You can go only so far on your own.

Mario,

So far all the work we've done has been volunteer. Finishing this new draft will probably require the efforts of an expert to insure the layout is acceptable to Cambridge Press. I expect we're going to have to pay someone to do that. In addition, despite what I said above, if we go with the R language to code our computational algorithms, I would expect to hire some one to do that - especially now that I've had a taste of R.

All

Presently, we have about 150 pages worth of material. I don't think the book needs to grow much beyond that, however, that will not be my decision alone. My next task is to break it all down into very specific topics so that we can make decisions on exactly what to include versus not. For example, we have a reticle-based method for computing the diameter of a leaning trunk. It was motivated by problems that MichaelTaylor was tackling. That would be a specific topic, as opposed to just a topic entitled reticle measurement. We have measurement compensations for tripod swivel. That needs to be a separate topic for purposes of deciding final inclusion/exclusion.

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

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dbhguru
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Re: Resurgence of Dendromorphometry

Post by dbhguru » Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:23 am

Ents,

Dr Bob Van Pelt, Dr. Lee Frelich, and yours truly have established a path forward on how we plan to proceed with subject matter on our resurrected Dendromorphometry book. I've attached a list of the approved topics. We will have more, courtesy of BVP's additions.

While I expect this stuff is peripheral to the interests of most of you we would still like to offer NTS members an opportunity to ask questions and offer opinions. Dendromorphometry was born in NTS, and I'd like to honor its roots.

Bob
Attachments
Dendromorphometry Topics.xlsx
(11.37 KiB) Downloaded 89 times
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

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Don
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Re: Resurgence of Dendromorphometry

Post by Don » Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:27 pm

Bob-
Regarding reticle-based measurements, and use of iPhones to capture the 'through-the-lens' experience, I don't know if I've recommended the following device before, or if you're already familiar with it.
If not, then you'll want to check out Carson HookUpz at:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... _BwE&smp=y
It relies on variable-sized collars to be fitted to the eyepieces of various optics (in my case, the 8x36 reticled monocular and my reticled Celestron Cavalry binocular)...essentially by friction, certainly functional for the length of time you're capturing the image...includes a partial case for the array of iPhones (which would necessitate removing one if you already have a protective case for your iPhone)...I see that they have adapters for iPhones 6, 6+...good potential use for the 4's, 5's, and SE's if you kept yours !
-Don
Don Bertolette - President/Moderator, WNTS BBS
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