Potential tall trees?

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Lucas
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Potential tall trees?

Post by Lucas » Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:19 pm


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In a “forest kindergarten” in Langnau am Albis, a suburb of Zurich, Switzerland

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2016/ ... -wild-text
Last edited by Lucas on Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
We travel the Milky way together, trees and men. - John Muir

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KoutaR
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Re: Potential tall trees?

Post by KoutaR » Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:03 am

Norway spruces..............................

Joe

Re: Potential tall trees?

Post by Joe » Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:07 am

KoutaR wrote:Norway spruces..............................
I've seen NS plantations here in Mass., mostly mismanaged, unmanaged, unpruned and clearcut- never one that looked this good! It's a wonderful species.
Joe

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dbhguru
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Re: Potential tall trees?

Post by dbhguru » Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:34 am

Joe,

We agree. Norway spruce is a great species. I've never understood why it has not found more favor as a timber tree in the Northeast. It makes the grade as a landscape choice. You see them everywhere, and it seems to like our climate. And it doesn't become an invasive.

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

Joe

Re: Potential tall trees?

Post by Joe » Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:48 am

Bob, I presume the timber industry just views NS as another spruce- so it's nothing special to them, so I doubt anyone now will plant them for forestry purposes- though, they grow very, very fast - maybe they'll never get as big or tall as WP, but they can develop into stands with a great deal of volume per acre. A few years ago I was marking a stand at Gould Farm in Monterey, MA. There were several very large specimens which had a beautiful almost orange-brown color. One was clearly a favorite of the local squirrel population because of abundant seed product. The cone/seed droppings at the bottom of the tree, built up over many years was about 3' deep! I had never seen anything like that before.

One reason hardly anyone plants ANY forests in this part of the country is that forest economists say you have to consider it a capital investment and apply compound interest to that investment- thus if it cost you, say for the sake of argument, $1,000 to plant an acre, if you have to apply compound interest for several decades before getting a return on it, the investment become astronomical- thus, no plantings for forestry. It would be smarter to consider that investment as a one time cost- then don't apply interest charges.

And of course, our current forestry "leadership" in this part of the world- thinks what we really need are more clearcuts!

Since we're going to lose much of the hemlock- we really should start thinking about planting NS to replace the hemlock- and the forest economists should rethink their investment theories.
Joe

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Lucas
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Re: Potential tall trees?

Post by Lucas » Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:45 am

Joe wrote:
KoutaR wrote:Norway spruces..............................
I've seen NS plantations here in Mass., mostly mismanaged, unmanaged, unpruned and clearcut- never one that looked this good! It's a wonderful species.
Joe
Same thing here. I see the odd one in parks and such that may be 100 footers.
We travel the Milky way together, trees and men. - John Muir

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Lucas
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Re: Potential tall trees?

Post by Lucas » Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:46 am

KoutaR wrote:Norway spruces..............................
I was suspicious of that but didn't know.
We travel the Milky way together, trees and men. - John Muir

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Lucas
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Re: Potential tall trees?

Post by Lucas » Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:35 pm

Joe wrote:Bob, I presume the timber industry just views NS as another spruce- so it's nothing special to them, so I doubt anyone now will plant them for forestry purposes- though, they grow very, very fast - maybe they'll never get as big or tall as WP, but they can develop into stands with a great deal of volume per acre. A few years ago I was marking a stand at Gould Farm in Monterey, MA. There were several very large specimens which had a beautiful almost orange-brown color. One was clearly a favorite of the local squirrel population because of abundant seed product. The cone/seed droppings at the bottom of the tree, built up over many years was about 3' deep! I had never seen anything like that before.

One reason hardly anyone plants ANY forests in this part of the country is that forest economists say you have to consider it a capital investment and apply compound interest to that investment- thus if it cost you, say for the sake of argument, $1,000 to plant an acre, if you have to apply compound interest for several decades before getting a return on it, the investment become astronomical- thus, no plantings for forestry. It would be smarter to consider that investment as a one time cost- then don't apply interest charges.

And of course, our current forestry "leadership" in this part of the world- thinks what we really need are more clearcuts!

Since we're going to lose much of the hemlock- we really should start thinking about planting NS to replace the hemlock- and the forest economists should rethink their investment theories.
Joe

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An example of what you mean?

http://sociology.sunimc.net/htmledit/up ... 911793.pdf

pg 82-83
We travel the Milky way together, trees and men. - John Muir

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Lucas
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Re: Potential tall trees?

Post by Lucas » Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:41 pm

We travel the Milky way together, trees and men. - John Muir

Joe

Re: Potential tall trees?

Post by Joe » Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:50 pm

Lucas wrote:An example of what you mean?
Interesting item. Just a few days ago I watched a Netflix video on the ecology of China which showed the remaining elephants of China.

As for the economics of forestry- it's a difficult subject. Lots of unknowns. Certainly, as that item pointed out- risk is a big problem and may force premature cutting. But, carrying the cost of planting trees at compound interest for several decades is just bad economics. Instead, the cost of planting should be put against the profit from a current cut- so that, a large forestry enterprise is cutting some acres every year and planting some every year. The cost of the planting should be seen as a cost deducted against the current profit- not as a capital investment. It's the end of a cycle, not the beginning of one- economically speaking.

But, I think most cutting is done when "the owners need the money"- not really based on sophisticated economics or fear of risk.

I suggest serious economic thinking about forestry would result in better forestry and longer rotations- with lighter cutting, resulting in holding more of the "forest capital" while raising the "rate of return" by allowing the trees with the most potential for adding value- to continue to add value. As I said, it's a complicated subject- not well understood by decision makers.
Joe

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