Large Volume Hardwood Species In Europe

Moderators: edfrank, dbhguru

Post Reply
Jeroen Philippona
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:52 am

Large Volume Hardwood Species In Europe

Post by Jeroen Philippona » Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:38 am

Michael,

Interesting what Will and BVP have measured in California!
Largest oak they measured in the east was the Middleton Oak in Charleston, SC, with a total volume of around 4820 cubic feet in 2004.
See the : http://www.nativetreesociety.org/fieldt ... roject.htm. Since the oak has lost some very large limbs.

The largest oak in Europe, The oak of Ivenack in Germany, 32.2 m tall with CBH of 11.2 m, we estimate as about as large.

So perhaps those three species can get about as large.
But perhaps Platanus can grow even larger: a very large Eastern plane tree, Platanus orientalis, near Dubrovnik, Kroatia, with a height of about 44 m (measured with a Haga hypsometer by Aubrey Fennell form Ireland) and CBH of 12.36 m, was estimated by him as having a volume of perhaps near 200 cubic meter, what should be near 7000 cubic feet. Perhaps Platanus occidentalis can grow as large potentally.

Jeroen Philippona

User avatar
dbhguru
Posts: 4550
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:34 pm

Re: Large Volume Hardwood Species In Europe

Post by dbhguru » Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:56 am

Jeroen,

Just a note, we can't put much trust in the Haga hypsometer unless the instrument has been improved and become laser driven. I started measuring trees in a serious way using a borrowed Haga Altimeter (as it was then called). I borrowed it from Harvard University's Harvard Forest research facility to document the old growth in Massachusetts that I was finding. Oh brother, I made more errors than I'd ever care to admit, but no one seemed to notice. They were making the same errors. One can argue that the errors stemmed from our collective misuse of the instrument rather than the instrument itself. However, that would get us into a discussion of the tangent method and the assumptions behind it, and we've been there many times. If the measurer was aware of the Haga's shortcomings and compensated for them, I tip my hat to him.

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

Jeroen Philippona
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:52 am

Re: Large Volume Hardwood Species In Europe

Post by Jeroen Philippona » Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:33 pm

Bob,

The huge Platanus orientalis was measured around 2000 by Aubrey Fennell from Ireland. He told me when I met him at the European Champion Tree Forum (ECTF) in Bonn, Germany, at October 8 and 9. He is the principal measurer of the Irish Tree Register. He now knows the Haga Hypsometer / Altimeter is not that good: several tall conifers he had heightmeasured with it were measured later by David Alderman, the director of the Tree Register of the British Isles, with an Impulse laser. I don't know wich type but I think it works in Sine-top Sine bottom way. The laser measurements were often

Aubrey told me he was aware it was difficult to measure the height in this way, also because he had to do it from a distance of around 35 meter.
We were not discussing the tree because of its height, but because of its huge volume. The tree very probably was planted around 1500 and has a tremendous trunk, about 60 feet tall before dividing in large limbs and with 40 feet cbh. Tomorrow, when I'm back home, I'll send some photos and the more exact measurements Aubrey sended me.
As you know from BVP the record height of Platanus x acerifolia in the UK is 48.56 m, nearly 160 ft, measured by climbing with direct tape drop. This tree has a cbh of around 18 ft, so will have less volume.

Alas Kouta could not come to the ECTF, were I pleaded for more accurate height measuring. Many champion tree measurers in several countries are not very much interested in height measuring. Probably because there are few old growth forests in those countries. The trees they measure are most often planted, open grown trees with a large girth.
Still some of them are measuring accurately by laser and sometimes climbing, like in the UK.

Jeroen

User avatar
dbhguru
Posts: 4550
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:34 pm

Re: Large Volume Hardwood Species In Europe

Post by dbhguru » Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:55 am

Jeroen,

Actually, Aubrey can get acceptably accurate height measurements using the Haga Altimeter if he uses the External Baseline Method (EBM). The biggest negative to EBM is the formula associated with it, but a programmable calculator, iPhone, etc. can reduce the work and time. Minimum equipment needed for EBM includes two poles or tripods, a clinometer/altimeter, and a tape measure. I recently posted an Excel workbook showing various uses of tangent-based measurement methods. Methods 4, 4a, 4b, and Method4ErrorAnalysis explain the various applications of EBM. I'll soon add in a version of EBM that will lift the restriction that the baseline has to be in alignment with the target (ends of the baseline and the target must lie in the same vertical plane). The additional method requires the use of a horizontal angle measuring device. That introduces a substantially larger source of error, so it is the method of last resort. Consequently, I dropped the method from prior descriptions of EBM, but see ways of implementing it that may work.

A couple of days ago Michael Taylor and I had our first consultation meeting with Laser Technologies Inc. The meeting went very well. I expect that Laser Tech will use us on occasion in the future as consultant in possibly a variety of ways. Hopefully the end result will eventually be a redesigned TruPulse 360 that will provide greater accuracy and several new features. But that is a long time off. For now, we make do with what we have.

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

Post Reply

Return to “Europe and the British Isles - Overviews”