some old trees in northern Germany

Moderators: edfrank, dbhguru

Jeroen Philippona
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:52 am

some old trees in northern Germany

Post by Jeroen Philippona » Sun May 16, 2010 6:09 am

Last week together with Remke van Rijswijk I visited the north-eastern part of Germany, most in the Bond-state of Mecklenburg-Vorpommern. We met Kouta Räsänen in the 'Heilige Hallen' beech forest reserve, were we measured several of the largest and tallest European beeches, to know if the in the literature reported heights of 50 - 52 m are true.
Beside this we were there for birdwatching as well as visiting old solitarian trees. In this area there are a lot of old solitarian trees, several of wich are famous as being among the biggest and presumable oldest of the species in Germany or Europe.
Here photos of some of them.


A. White elm - Ulmus laevis.
White Elm of Gülitz
White Elm of Gülitz
A 1. The elm in the village of Gülitz in Brandenburg.
This is the largest girthed elm in Germany and probably Europe. CBH is 9,8 metre / 32.15 feet, height is 19 m / 62 feet. Age is unknown, some say it is 800 years but we think it will be between 350 and 500 year.
White Elm near Boek
White Elm near Boek
A 2. White elm near Boek, in the Müritz National Park, Mecklenburg Vorpommern.
Height 16 m, cbh 6,2 m (20 feet). Age ± 200 - 250 years.
Most really old elms in Europe are solitarian white elms, because it is less vulnerable to Dutch elm disease. This while the beetles wich are the actor of the fungus don't like this elm-species. When there is root-contact with other elm-species it can be infected and killed.

B. Small-leaf Lime - Tilia cordata.
Small leaf Lime of Speck
Small leaf Lime of Speck
There are many large, old solitarian lime-trees (Tilia cordata, T. platyphyllos and T. x europea, wich are hybrids of the other two) in Germany, many presumably very old. The largest girthed lime we visited this time is in the Hamlet of Speck, Müritz National Park.
Height: 17 m (56 ft), cbh ± 9,5 m (31 ft). Age estimated 400 - 600 years.


C. Pedunculate oak (= common oak or English oak) - Quercus robur. Many large specimen trees with a girth of 20 to 37 feet in Mecklenburg Vorpommern. Also common in forests.
Oak of Lüttenhagen with Kouta (right) and Jeroen measuring
Oak of Lüttenhagen with Kouta (right) and Jeroen measuring
C1. Oak near the church of Lüttenhagen, near the Heiligen Hallen beech forest. Photo with Kouta and myself measuring the girth: 759 cm (24,9 feet) , height 20 m (65 ft), estimated age ± 350 - 450 years.
Vosseik Gross Gievitz
Vosseik Gross Gievitz
Vosseik Gross Gievitz
Vosseik Gross Gievitz
C2. Oak in a brook-forest called "Voss-eik", near Gross-Gievitz.
Height 27,2 m (89,2 ft), cbh 826 cm (27,1 ft), estimated age 350 - 450 years. Very beautiful, large oak with beautiful big limbs.
Oak of Ivenack
Oak of Ivenack
Oak of Ivenack
Oak of Ivenack
C3. Largest oak of Ivenack, largest oak of Germany and (in volume) of Europe.
Height: 32,2 m (105,6 ft), cbh 1125 cm (36,9 feet). Age estimated ± 600 - 800 years. Total woodvolume ± 140 cubic metre / 4944 cubic feet. Age estimate based on treering research in 1996 of the outher 35,5 cm (193 yearrings in 35,5 cm, were the radius without bark was 166 cm) and comparing with cut trees in the neighbourhood.
Knorreiche Rothenmoor
Knorreiche Rothenmoor
C4. Knorreiche of Rothenmoor. Very nice tree.
Height 17 m (56 ft), cbh 770 cm (25,2 ft), age ± 400 - 450 years.
Black Poplar Sommerdorf
Black Poplar Sommerdorf
D. Black Poplar - Populus nigra. Very related to the Cottonwood - Populus deltoïdes.
Height 33,2 m (109 ft), cbh 750 cm (24,6 ft), age estimated 120 - 150 years. Large native black poplars are rare in Europe, most poplars are hybrids of P. nigra x P. deltoides.

Jeroen
Last edited by Jeroen Philippona on Mon May 17, 2010 3:52 pm, edited 4 times in total.

User avatar
James Parton
Posts: 1576
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:47 pm

Re: some old trees in northern Germany

Post by James Parton » Sun May 16, 2010 8:44 am

Jeroen,

Awesome! Very beautiful ancient-looking trees, and they are big enough to make our Live Oak specialist, Larry Tucei jealous. I am sure many of us mentally compare English Oak to Southern Live Oak. I think Live Oak has greater limb mass but English has the largest girth of any oak. Which is the absolute largest I don't know. But both are almost certainly the largest and oldest of the oaks.

Hey, Larry. What is the largest single trunked and multiple trunked Live Oaks in the Live Oak Project?

Jeroen, It is really hard to pick out my favorite in the pictures you have taken but Knorreiche of Rothenmoor may lead by a narrow margin. The tree has really got that ancient look going for it. Are the lime trees true limes and is the fruit edible?

I have noticed that to match the list in the text view the pictures from the bottom up.

Kouta had a really good post on Heiligen Hallen and I would be very interested on seeing your view of the trip.

Awesome post, Jeroen!

James Parton
James E Parton
Ovate Course Graduate - Druid Student
Bardic Mentor
New Order of Druids

http://www.druidcircle.org/nod/index.ph ... Itemid=145

Jeroen Philippona
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:52 am

Re: some old trees in northern Germany

Post by Jeroen Philippona » Sun May 16, 2010 5:00 pm

James,

Yes, the Knorreiche is perhaps the most picturesque! To say what are the largest and oldest oaks of the world is not sure.Till now the Middleton oak and the Ivenack oak seem to be the largest known of the two species in volume and seem to be about as large. But Mexico has a lot of oak species, perhaps there are very large or old oaks there. Also the Californian Valley oak, Quercus lobata, is able to become very large. Bob van Pelt and Steve Sillett have measured some of them, but till now did not report exact measurements, except for these: http://www.landmarktrees.net/hardwoods.html.
Also, forest grown Quercus castaneifolia in Iran can be very large, perhaps larger than the largest known forest grown Q. robur.

About oldest oaks is even more speculative.

The pictures I posted in the order like in the list, but the BBS turns this bottom up.

I had a comment on Heiligen Hallen under Kouta's post, I'll write some more under it.

Jeroen

User avatar
James Parton
Posts: 1576
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:47 pm

Re: some old trees in northern Germany

Post by James Parton » Sun May 16, 2010 9:04 pm

Jeroen,

You or Ed re-arranged the pictures. It looks nice. The other way was not a problem though. I have noticed the reversal on my posts too.

James
James E Parton
Ovate Course Graduate - Druid Student
Bardic Mentor
New Order of Druids

http://www.druidcircle.org/nod/index.ph ... Itemid=145

Jimmy McDonald
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:52 pm

Re: some old trees in northern Germany

Post by Jimmy McDonald » Sun May 16, 2010 9:59 pm

Jeroen, great stuff man those are some incredible trees. I had some very similar thoughts as you James, I was immediately visuallizing some of the souths largest live oaks against these trees. Much different style, both awesome. I'd be interested in seeing some pics of Mexican and Iranian Oaks, I never really think of those places trees. The champ valley oak of california must have some serious volume. http://www.ufei.org/bigtrees/images.lasso?KeyValue=118

User avatar
dbhguru
Posts: 4519
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:34 pm

Re: some old trees in northern Germany

Post by dbhguru » Mon May 17, 2010 10:56 am

Jeroen,

We are again indebted to you for your contribution. Please, please keep them coming.

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

User avatar
KoutaR
Posts: 667
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:41 am

Re: some old trees in northern Germany

Post by KoutaR » Mon May 17, 2010 3:12 pm

James Parton wrote:Are the lime trees true limes and is the fruit edible?
James, basswoods are called limes in Britain.

Jeroen, great photos and great trees!

Kouta

User avatar
James Parton
Posts: 1576
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:47 pm

Re: some old trees in northern Germany

Post by James Parton » Mon May 17, 2010 11:08 pm

Kouta,

So " limes " is a local name. Just like American Sycamore is often known as " Buttonwood " in the northeast. I am familiar with basswood.

James
James E Parton
Ovate Course Graduate - Druid Student
Bardic Mentor
New Order of Druids

http://www.druidcircle.org/nod/index.ph ... Itemid=145

Jeroen Philippona
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:52 am

Re: some old trees in northern Germany

Post by Jeroen Philippona » Tue May 18, 2010 4:49 am

James,

I think its the way around: "Lime" is the old English name for the trees of the Tilia genus, probably from the early Middle ages. In Holland we call them "Linde", just like in Germany. In the Slavian languagues its called "Lipa" and in French "Tilleul" from "Tilia".
I think the name "Basswood" is only used in the USA for Tilia americana and probably originated about in the 17th or 18th century.

The Sycamore trees (Platanus of several species) in Europe everywere are called "Plane tree" or Plataan / Platane(Dutch, French, German, Italian, etc.). To make it more confusing: in England the common maple Acer pseudoplatanus is called Sycamore!

Jeroen

User avatar
KoutaR
Posts: 667
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:41 am

Re: some old trees in northern Germany

Post by KoutaR » Tue May 18, 2010 5:35 am

Jimmy,

There was once a discussion on Iranian oaks in the ENTSTrees. Jeroen also posted some photos there:

http://groups.google.com/group/entstree ... Fhl=en&amp

From about the mid-page onwards.

Kouta

Post Reply

Return to “Germany”