European ENTS in Heilige Hallen, Germany

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edfrank
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Re: European ENTS in Heilige Hallen

Post by edfrank » Thu May 13, 2010 10:57 am

Kouta,

Video clips can be uploaded to youtube: http://www.youtube.com or vimeo at: http://www.vimeo.com You would need to get an account with one or the other, but they are free. Videos posted on these sites can be embeded into posts to the BBS.

Ed
"I love science and it pains me to think that so many are terrified of the subject or feel that choosing science means you cannot also choose compassion, or the arts, or be awe by nature. Science is not meant to cure us of mystery, but to reinvent and revigorate it." by Robert M. Sapolsky

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James Parton
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Re: European ENTS in Heilige Hallen

Post by James Parton » Thu May 13, 2010 12:42 pm

Kouta, Well said. Our ultimate dream should be in an Earth Native Tree Society. We have to begin somewhere and dreams sometimes begin small. But we have already achieved much and are already re-writing the book on tree measuring and documentation. James
James E Parton
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http://www.druidcircle.org/nod/index.ph ... Itemid=145

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Will Blozan
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Re: European ENTS in Heilige Hallen

Post by Will Blozan » Thu May 13, 2010 7:27 pm

Euro-ENTS,

Outstanding report! I too, hope we hear much more from you. If you can get your hands on a Nikon ProStaff 440 I almost quarantee you will find taller tops. The 550 doesn't penetrate the leaves well at all and will give accurate, but low readings. Here in the US American beech is one of the most difficult trees to measure due to the dense twigs.

Great work!

Will

Jeroen Philippona
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Re: European ENTS in Heilige Hallen

Post by Jeroen Philippona » Fri May 14, 2010 6:20 pm

Kouta, ENTS,

This evening I came back from a week to the north eastern part of Germany, the Bond-state of Mecklenburg Vorpommern. This is one of the least populated parts of Germany with relatively a lot of nature. Many smaller and larger lakes with marsh and moorlands are a good habitat for a lot of birds like cranes, eagles and many other species. There are several National Parks and nature reserves as well as landscape parks.
Its a pity there are no real natural forests. "Heilige Hallen" is very small and, because it was regrowth of the end 17th century from a former settlement cannot be seen as a primeaval forest. It is very poor in species composition, perhaps due to its history.
Some miles to the west there are larger mixed beech-forests wich have a bit richer vegetation but less old individual trees because there was wood-extraction in the past century as well as before. Parts of these forests have a mixture of European beech with common and sessile oak, birch, and on richer and wetter soils hornbeam, lime, white elm, European ash, Norway maple, black alder, aspen, etc.

About the measured height: 43 m / 141 ft is exactly the same height as the maximum height measured for beech in the Netherlands. Perhaps there were taller trees we missed, but I don't think there were taller tops on the measured trees because we measured them from openings in the canopy nearby. I was in the Heiligen Hallen forest about 10 years ago without measuring equipment. Since then several large trees have fallen or have broken tops. Few of the large old trees have still their full crowns. Because it was originally an even aged stand I think some decades ago there was a younger and more closed canopy, with some trees up to one or two, perhaps three meters taller. Maximum height than will have been between 44 and 46 m (144 and 151 feet). The reported heights of 50 - 52 m I do not belief. The heights of 40 to 43 m are on old trees in the valleys / dells or on the lower slopes. Higher up the slopes the trees are most below 40 m tall.

Jeroen
Last edited by Jeroen Philippona on Sat May 15, 2010 4:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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edfrank
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Re: European ENTS in Heilige Hallen

Post by edfrank » Fri May 14, 2010 7:31 pm

Jeroen,

Excellent post. I am glad to see stuff coming from our European members.

Ed Frank
"I love science and it pains me to think that so many are terrified of the subject or feel that choosing science means you cannot also choose compassion, or the arts, or be awe by nature. Science is not meant to cure us of mystery, but to reinvent and revigorate it." by Robert M. Sapolsky

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KoutaR
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Re: European ENTS in Heilige Hallen

Post by KoutaR » Sat May 15, 2010 6:10 am

Jeroen,

About the composition of the forest: The flora in Heilige Hallen is very poor indeed. It is possible that this partly derives from human influence before 1850. Perhaps beech was favored over other species. Usually there are sparingly other deciduous tree species present in the "natural" lowland beech forests, like Carpinus betulus, Acer pseudoplatanus and Fraxinus excelsior. However, it is not possibly to test, what would be the composition of truly primeval Western/Central European beech forest, simply because there is hardly any single such stand existing. The Slovakian virgin forests are located mainly in montane zone or still higher. Different authors have different opinios: some say the European beech would be capable to displace all the other species in the current climate (and the composition of Heilige Hallen would be natural). Another extreme is that even Abies alba and Picea abies could be present in lowland beech forests without human influence (e.g. Peters (1997): Beech Forests). The presence of birches and aspens is a sign of disturbances in the past.

However, even if flora is poor in Heilige Hallen, the diversity of beetles, fungi ecc., dependent on dead wood, is for sure richer than in younger forests in the region.

Kouta

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KoutaR
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Re: European ENTS in Heilige Hallen

Post by KoutaR » Sat May 15, 2010 6:24 am

Will,

When I was bying a rangefinder, I got advices from Ed, and he wrote me about the ability of 440 to shoot better through small openings. However, 440 was not available anymore, and having a built-in clinometer was tempting to me. When I met Doug Bidlack, we measured some trees with the two instruments - Doug with his 440 and I with my 550 - and we got very close measurements. However, they were rather easy measurements with tree tops clearly visible. Probably 440 would be great in European beech forests. On the another hand, I measured at least 10 trees in the time Doug measured one. But on the third hand, the fastest method is seldom the best: climbing is probably the best method and the slowest. And the fastest method is guessing...

Kouta

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James Parton
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Re: European ENTS in Heilige Hallen

Post by James Parton » Sat May 15, 2010 11:56 am

Kouta,

I have a 440 and Suunto clinometer but I have thought of buying a 550 because it would be easier and faster to use. I would select the 440 on hard to measure stuff in dense forests but for all other else I would probably prefer the 550.

Will is awesomely fast with the 440 and clinometer. He can measure four trees in the time it takes me to measure one!

James
James E Parton
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New Order of Druids

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Jeroen Philippona
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Re: European ENTS in Heilige Hallen

Post by Jeroen Philippona » Sat May 15, 2010 5:39 pm

Kouta,

Indeed for beetles and fungi Heiligen Hallen will be very rich. On internet in an article:
http://www.bund-naturschutz.de/fileadmi ... 4-2008.pdf
the comparable beechforest Fauler Ort in Schorfheide-Chorin, Brandenburg, is compared with a younger beech forest with much less dead wood and indeed is much richer in species of these groups.

Still the forest type on the same soil in Serrahn near Neustrelitz, a few miles to the west, is richer, with at least more hornbeam and sessile oak.
For forest types related to soil and precipitation see: http://www.floraweb.de/vegetation/pnv/f11_index.html ,
http://www.floraweb.de/vegetation/pnv/p ... ndeges.htm and
http://www.floraweb.de/MAP/scripts/esri ... unit=U2%3B

Jeroen

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