The tallest tree of Germany

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KoutaR
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The tallest tree of Germany

Post by KoutaR » Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:32 am

The tallest tree of Germany, a Douglas-fir in Freiburg, has been measured again on the 21th of August. The measurement was made with a theodolite by the surveying office of the Freiburg municipality. They did not measure the distance to the top but they measured angles from two positions. Thus, the method is essentially the same as Bob's "external baseline method". The new result is 65.61 m (215.3 ft). The previous result from November 2012 was 64.83 m (212.7 ft). The difference (78 cm = 2.6 ft) may be a bit too much for the growth of one season as the average growth between 2006 and 2012 has been 32 cm (1 ft). Thus, the 2012 result may be a bit too low, the new result a bit too high or both. Apparently the accuracy of the method does not exceed our Nikon measurements even if made with high-precision theodolites.

The used methods are apparently not accurate enough to give answer, which one is taller - the Freiburg Doug-fir or the new find in Wales (65.4 m = 214.6 ft). These are also the tallest reliably measured conifers in Europe.

Kouta

UPDATE DECEMBER 2013: The tallest conifer of Europe is now 66.4 m tall:
http://www.monumentaltrees.com/en/gbr/s ... ack/15298/
Last edited by KoutaR on Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Will Blozan
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Re: The tallest tree of Germany

Post by Will Blozan » Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:41 am

Kouta,

Thanks for the report! Impressive trees. Sounds like a tape drop is in order.

Will

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dbhguru
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Re: The tallest tree of Germany

Post by dbhguru » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:26 pm

Kouta,

I never ceased to be amazed at what grows in Europe. Do you have an idea of the ages of those two competing Doug firs?
On rare occasion, I see a planted Doug fir in the East, but none have been impressive. Europe seems to have areas that suit that species much better than the eastern U.S., although I have no hard proof of that.

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

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KoutaR
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Re: The tallest tree of Germany

Post by KoutaR » Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:25 am

Bob,

The Freiburg tree is about 100 years old. The growth of Douglas-fir in the UK, France and southern Germany does apparently not fall behind that in western North America. The seed origin is probably in the Washington Cascades. There is one photo here:
http://www.monumentaltrees.com/db/06/full/06590.jpg

About the Douglas-fir in Wales, I don't know its age or origin.

Another species from the western US, that does extremely well in Europe, is giant sequoia. Check this photo of 140-year-old giant sequoias over young European native broadleafs. The central tree is 53.5 m (176 ft) tall, the others are almost as tall.
http://www.monumentaltrees.com/db/22/full/22048.jpg
In a few hundred years, the tallest giant sequoias in the world may be in Europe!

Kouta

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dbhguru
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Re: The tallest tree of Germany

Post by dbhguru » Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:38 am

Kouta,

Holy Toledo!! I had no idea. Europe has sooo much more to offer than I ever realized, native and non-native. It is truly eye opening. Very exciting. We're always wondering what once grew in eastern America. I wonder what once grew in areas of Europe.

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

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KoutaR
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Re: The tallest tree of Germany

Post by KoutaR » Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:53 am

An addition: The tallest giant sequoia of Europe is 57.7 m (189 ft) tall. It is in France and was measured with tape drop.

Kouta

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dbhguru
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Re: The tallest tree of Germany

Post by dbhguru » Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:03 pm

Kouta,

I'm trying to get a picture of how prevalent these fine European trees, native and non-native are. Are there numerous places with trees, say over 150 feet? Which countries seems to have the most? How far up elevation wise do tall trees grow in northern Europe versus southern Europe. Anything in the Pyrenees? So much to learn. You guys are just the best.

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

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KoutaR
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Re: The tallest tree of Germany

Post by KoutaR » Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:22 am

Bob,

My knowledge about many regions of Europe is rather poor, but I try to answer as well as I can. Below a tree over 150 ft is called "tall tree".

Island: No tall trees.

Scandinavia, Finland, the Baltic Countries and the adjacent Russia: No tall broadleaf trees, tall conifers extremely rare.

Russia further to the east: I don't know.

UK: Tall broadleafs extremely rare, tall conifers (western NA species) relatively common.

France, Germany, Czech and adjacent areas: Tall broadleafs very rare, tall conifers (e.g. Norway spruce, Douglas-fir) not uncommon.

Iberian Peninsula: Tall eucalypts common in the northwest. (Planted) tall trees rare in the rest of the peninsula.

Italy, Balkans: Tall broadleafts very rare, tall conifers (Norway spruce, silver fir) relatively common in the mountains.

For the rest of Europe I cannot say anything. I guess the UK and northwestern Spain & Portugal have the most tall trees. Western NA conifers and eucalypts, respectively. I cannot give any elevation limits. I cannot also say much about the Pyrenees. I have been in the French Pyrenees but did not measure trees at the time. I saw quite tall silver firs (Abies alba), I guess there are trees over 150 ft. Norway spruce does not occur in the Pyrenees (at least by nature). Furthermore, I guess there are no tall trees in the Spanish Pyrenees because it is much drier in the southern side.

The text above is partly speculation only. It would be nice to get Jeroen's opinion. He is probably already back from the Balkans.

Kouta

Jeroen Philippona
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Re: The tallest tree of Germany

Post by Jeroen Philippona » Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:32 pm

Kouta,

I agree with your overview. Native broadleaves over 150 feet are very rare anywere in Europe, we know only of some grooves with European beech and European ash in Germany and Sessile oak in France of over 150 feet.
Rarely Platanus x hispanica and probably Platanus orientalis will grow above 150 feet.
Of native conifers Pice abies, Abies alba and rarely Larix decidua grow to above150 feet.
Of course in the Caucasian forests Abied nordmanniana and Picea otiëntalis are reported to grow above 150 feet, Picea orientalis reported to around 180 feet and Abies nordmanniana to 200 feet or more. Pinus canariensis seems to grow to over 150 ft at6 the Canaty Isles.
I don't know about the other native conifers.

Jeroen

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KoutaR
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Re: The tallest tree of Germany

Post by KoutaR » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:01 am

Of course, we have also laser-measured Pinus nigra over 150 ft. Other species that may get over 150 ft tall: Abies borisii-regis (eastern Balkan), Larix sibirica (at least south from the native range) and Fagus orientalis (Caucasus).

Kouta

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