New Project Opportunity - VERY IMPORTANT

Project to develop a video of tree measurement procedures.

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dbhguru
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New Project Opportunity - VERY IMPORTANT

Post by dbhguru » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:28 am

ENTS,

This message is intended primarily for the measuring faithful. Will, Jess, Dale, Ed, Carl, Anthony, Larry, James, Don, Lee, Turner, Mike, Darin, John, Andrew, et. al, we have an opportunity to make a BIG difference in the tree measuring world. Through the excellent work of Don Bertolette, American Forests has invited us to make a video on tree measuring. That's right! You've read this correctly. We of ENTS and WNTS can develop a video for use by amateurs and professionals alike that would be available through AF. The project would be groundbreaking and give ENTS-WNTS an unprecedented opportunity to serve the tree-measuring public. It would be a video that covers all techniques for measuring height, girth, and spread. We would have ample opportunity to discuss the challenges and risks associated with each measurement technique. However, the tone would need to be inclusive, i.e. positive and upbeat, but no problem with that. There can't be a hint of conflict between say ENTS and AF. This would be a totally cooperative venture.

Now I ask everyone, when before have we ever had such an outreach opportunity? This is it. My long time friend and WNTS companion, Don Bertolette has earned his ENTS crown of olive leaves. Don currently is in Yellow Knife, Canada, fending off grizzly bears as he catches salmon that are 10 feet long. Of course, he's going to be a primary participant, but there's only so much he can do from the wilds of Canada. He's asking for our help. So now it is idea time. How the heck do we do this? I know nothing about making films.

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

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James Parton
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Re: New Project Opportunity - VERY IMPORTANT

Post by James Parton » Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:37 am

Bob,

This is a wonderful opportunity for ENTS to promote our methodology. I suppose this would be a clip on the AF website, right? The biggest problem with making a video with several of us in it is our widely separated distance. This is where a well placed gathering of ENTS would really help. It could be done there. Otherwise a video could be a narrated slideshow-style clip using still photographs showing how we measure trees. Another way it could be done is by getting some measuring ENTS in an area that live close together to do the video. Like Ed, Carl, and Anthony Kelly, or Will, Myself and Josh Kelly. I don't know exactly how to do this but I will think on it.

Colby Rucker has a nice measuring video on ENTS that could be a good model and Will Blozan has some film making experience. Also, every Windows computer has a program called " Movie Maker " that can assemble slideshow-type movies with effects. That might can be of use.

Ideas Anyone?

James
James E Parton
Ovate Course Graduate - Druid Student
Bardic Mentor
New Order of Druids

http://www.druidcircle.org/nod/index.ph ... Itemid=145

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edfrank
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Re: New Project Opportunity - VERY IMPORTANT

Post by edfrank » Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:22 pm

Guys, Bob,

There are a couple of questions I need to ask. First how long of a video are we talking about, and how will it be distributed? These make a big difference. If it is to be a whole DVD, then we can shoot for an hour or so and go into some detail. I would recommend HD 1020i video widescreen format. If it s to be a video linked on their website, we need to try for something that will fit into a 10 minute video clip, or perhaps a clip for each of girth, crown spread, and height. Perhaps we should be doing both? A high quality video can be done using consumer camcorders available today. Joe Zorzin and I both have HD cameras that can capture at higher resolutions than this. I have a wireless mike, a wired lavaliere mike can be bought at Radio Shack for under $50 to assure good voice quality. The video can be edited on a PC based program like Adobe Premiere, or on Mac using Final Cut. We can do this ourselves, but first we need a better idea of the nature of the video to be made.

Ed
"I love science and it pains me to think that so many are terrified of the subject or feel that choosing science means you cannot also choose compassion, or the arts, or be awe by nature. Science is not meant to cure us of mystery, but to reinvent and revigorate it." by Robert M. Sapolsky

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James Parton
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Re: New Project Opportunity - VERY IMPORTANT

Post by James Parton » Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:49 pm

Dang Ed, You're the man! You've got the technology. Seriously, That's pretty cool that you have the stuff.

James
James E Parton
Ovate Course Graduate - Druid Student
Bardic Mentor
New Order of Druids

http://www.druidcircle.org/nod/index.ph ... Itemid=145

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dbhguru
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Re: New Project Opportunity - VERY IMPORTANT

Post by dbhguru » Sat Aug 28, 2010 7:25 am

Ed,

Big Don Bertolette needs to weigh in here and give us his thoughts about duration. I certainly would expect not less than half an hour. I'm thinking around 40 minutes, but that's only my opinion. We want to do this right.

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

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Will Blozan
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Re: New Project Opportunity - VERY IMPORTANT

Post by Will Blozan » Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:07 pm

All,

Sounds like a great opportunity- but realistically will make no significant impact on any big tree list. It is still up to the coordinators to "get it right". AF should get a grant and supply all coordinators without a laser with a good one (the Nikon 550 may be a good choice). I would hope they already possess a clinometer!

Perhaps the most important point to make is that trees are complex organisms that don't lend themselves to short-cut techniques. But we also need to recognize that most folks only have short-cut techniques, and as such clearly point out the challenges and solutions to overcome them as best as possible. I really think tree form and how this challenges even those of us with a rangefinder is key. If people can get past the idea of a tree being straight with the top above the base and clearly visible this alone will make some headway. (Also just how do you find the highest point without a laser?) Photos and video of the tops of climbed trees (and 3D scale mapping images) will go a long way towards emphasizing this point.

To this end I think a video of a tape drop from the true top of a tree would be awesome. The place on the ground under the top could be used in subsequent analysis of real-world errors and how to address the challenges. This tutorial might make it more clear as well as give ENTS climbers and laser jockeys a much justified pat on the back. The tape drop could then be compared to the various techniques (corrected and uncorrected) and of course boil it down to the use of the laser to overcome most problems.

It would be great to give ENTS the exposure and credibility via a project like this. Also, if the video is composed of segments with ENTS folks from around the country (and Europe) it would give an idea of our global presence. We would need not be in the same place at one time. Also, forest challenges could be separate from open-grown challenges.

Will

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Larry Tucei
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Re: New Project Opportunity - VERY IMPORTANT

Post by Larry Tucei » Sat Aug 28, 2010 7:33 pm

ENTS, I have a 1080i Sony Video Camera and would really enjoy being involved. The great spreads, huge trunks of the LIve Oak will make for awesome stuff! It will be way cool to Document ENTS, WNTS method of measurement which is superior to any at AF, or anyone else! It is something that I have been wanting to video for some time. I've had my sony camera for over a year. I use my laptop or Samsung HD tv to view videos , which are of broadcast quality. With a little coaching (ED), I should be able to get up to speed with computer, video technology. It is a great time to be a member of ENTS and an honor to participate in such an awesome project! Larry

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AndrewJoslin
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Re: New Project Opportunity - VERY IMPORTANT

Post by AndrewJoslin » Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:21 pm

One point of view is not to worry about details about technology or length etc. yet. What's important now are the concepts not the implementation. What do we want to express? How to express the concepts? Straight tutorial? Mix it up with a little history, tutorial, on site demonstration, short discussions on different measuring topics etc.?

I expect it will be the later, a deft blend of history, technique and words of wisdom from the experts.

I think Will has nailed it with the idea (if I have it right) of using a tape drop and comparative laser measuring session on the same tree as the centerpiece of the video. I can imagine short interviews with Bob, Will, and our fine experts on particular problems that come up, measuring in the woods vs. in a park, common issues with particular species or tree types, tips and tricks to improve ground-based measuring accuracy etc.

As we move forward and nail down a content outline it will be worth considering pro quality video (3-chip camera) and sound. Keith Heyward shot my measuring climb of Joe Norton with pro quality gear and it shows. Keith considers it a toss-off with minimal editing and titling work but you can get an idea of how broadcast quality video really makes a difference. During the climb Keith implemented two different wireless mikes (one on the ground, one on me) so he could choose what sound source to use during editing. Starting at minute 10:13 there's a great segment where Bob talks about the difficulty of measuring pines with multiple leader tops, this is the kind of segment that would be excellent in the AF video.

Keeping it rolling..
-AJ

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AndrewJoslin
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Re: New Project Opportunity - VERY IMPORTANT

Post by AndrewJoslin » Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:30 pm

Here's a better example of Keith Heyward's and Jennifer Berglund's documentary film work:
http://vimeo.com/13794237

Looking at different examples of short documentary work might provide ideas for approaches that will work for the measuring video.
-AJ

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jamesrobertsmith
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Re: New Project Opportunity - VERY IMPORTANT

Post by jamesrobertsmith » Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:27 pm

Sounds like a wonderful idea. I could certainly make use of such a video!

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