A trend some may not be aware of.

General discussions of forests and trees that do not focus on a specific species or specific location.

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wisconsitom
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Re: A trend some may not be aware of.

Post by wisconsitom » Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:17 pm

I used to justify hunting in that the meat is more nutritious than farm-raised stuff. Then I heard a talk about what actually happens to a slug when it enters the body of a deer; In short, lead gets vaporized and tiny fragments of lead are driven deeply into the meat. I think I'm going to pass on venison from now on! Lead? No thanks. I eat very little meat anyway and so no big deal. But for those of us thinking that perhaps wild game is more healthy, I'd take a look at what lead can do for you!

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Lucas
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Re: A trend some may not be aware of.

Post by Lucas » Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:38 pm

wisconsitom wrote:I used to justify hunting in that the meat is more nutritious than farm-raised stuff. Then I heard a talk about what actually happens to a slug when it enters the body of a deer; In short, lead gets vaporized and tiny fragments of lead are driven deeply into the meat. I think I'm going to pass on venison from now on! Lead? No thanks. I eat very little meat anyway and so no big deal. But for those of us thinking that perhaps wild game is more healthy, I'd take a look at what lead can do for you!
Copper, and other non toxics, are available. At some point, all ammo may be non toxic. Cost is the big hurdle now.
We travel the Milky way together, trees and men. - John Muir

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Erik Danielsen
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Re: A trend some may not be aware of.

Post by Erik Danielsen » Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:37 pm

A lot of folks I know who depend on venison as a component of their diet would rather swallow the cost of solid-core copper than swallow the lead, so to speak.

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Lucas
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Re: A trend some may not be aware of.

Post by Lucas » Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:17 pm

I saw something recently where a toxins expert was saying any lead in the environment wasa bad thing. There was a graph of lead levels post fuel lead ban that showed a hhuge drop in lead levels for those born after it.
We travel the Milky way together, trees and men. - John Muir

wisconsitom
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Re: A trend some may not be aware of.

Post by wisconsitom » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:31 am

And hey look, there's all types out there; Sure, some hunters really are on the biological tip, actually interested in the animals they hunt and so on. I know lots of hunters who skillfully butcher their own deer and do so with success, year after year. It's just so prevalent right now....the real stupid side of things. And while actual participation in the hunt is way down from the hey-days, you would never know it by the policies being adopted. Forest management appears to be set on a course of "young forest" and "good wildlife management".....for two or three hunted species-deer, turkey and I'll throw in grouse, because the loggers like them too, since they depend on all stages of aspen for their success. This dovetails nicely with the forest products industry's needs.

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dbhguru
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Re: A trend some may not be aware of.

Post by dbhguru » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:43 am

Tom, Rick,

Are there many mainstream supporters in Wisconsin of late successional forests? Here in Massachusetts, we have advocates for both the young and old. And different environmental/conservation organizations shift their positions from time to time. But it has been my experience that the wildlife agencies are uniformly for scrubby woodlands that favor game animal species. Wildlife biologists are more game animal advocates than interested in the spectrum of animal life. Considering the economics, that is to be expected, I suppose, but then the wild life community falls prey to the timber industry's pitch that young forests are healthy and older ones aren't. In my world view, it is about balance, but I do understand why public forest managers aren't inclined to want to sit back and let nature take its course - not if they want to stay employed. Not much call for people to simply sit around and just watch a forest grow on its own.

The answer may be a system such as here in Massachusetts where a certain percentage of the public forests are placed in reserves and the rest is actively managed. Interestingly, my good friend Joe Zorzin played an important part in advocating for a balanced approach. He was pretty much alone on the forest management side of the house in advocating for the reserves. His position has always been that if the actively managed acreage of our public forests is done right, the benefits will be great enough to retain the rest in reserves, whatever their called.

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

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Lucas
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Re: A trend some may not be aware of.

Post by Lucas » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:16 pm

http://www.deerhunterforum.com/index.ph ... post-30198

An example of a guy that really knows his stuff. His posts are like a TED seminar.
We travel the Milky way together, trees and men. - John Muir

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Lucas
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Re: A trend some may not be aware of.

Post by Lucas » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:18 pm

"The downside is that the region immediately east of the 40 acre parcel is heavily hunted by folks who shoot "anything with horns". It is their property. They are current on their taxes. I do not judge.

The area immediately west of the property is hunted by a younger man whose motto is, "If its brown, its down." He judges the success of his hunting season by the number of carcasses he can hang on hooks in the barn.

It has become increasingly clear that the only way to grow big bucks is to create even better sanctuary cover on the property than the pickle-shaped swamp and to provide them, and does, with enough vittles during hunting season (October 1-December 30) to keep them on the property."

A good example of what is driving the trend.

From https://eatonrapidsjoe.blogspot.ca/

Landscaping for Wildlife: multiple posts by a tree guy, whose blog I follow.
We travel the Milky way together, trees and men. - John Muir

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Lucas
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Re: A trend some may not be aware of.

Post by Lucas » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:23 pm

dbhguru wrote: Considering the economics, that is to be expected, I suppose, but then the wild life community falls prey to the timber industry's pitch that young forests are healthy and older ones aren't. Bob
Around here, the industry has the woods in a strangle hold. It is bad enough they cut but they destroy soil and the ecosystem with it.

I have to laugh and grind my teeth at the ruffed grouse society propaganda on cutting, too.

The county here has been cut to devastation and that includes deer wintering habitat.
We travel the Milky way together, trees and men. - John Muir

Joe

Re: A trend some may not be aware of.

Post by Joe » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:35 am

Though I'm not against hunting- in general- what does bother me- is when a really awesome animal is killed and the hunter takes pride in it. Such as: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/tennes ... ar-BBy5xeR

wow, a really big, beautiful buck gets shot and this is wonderful?

I was watching TV a few years ago- and tuned into what I thought was a typical nature show- but it was a hunting show--- they guy see and shoots a tiger- a really big tiger--- then he goes over to it and is glowing with the thrill- he then leans over and pets the dead tiger and says, "oh, it's SO beautiful".

I almost threw up seeing that.

I know some loggers who'll cut a really big, beautiful tree and also take pride and pleasure in it. I think it's the same mentality. Like, "wow, look at me, how cool and manly I am, I just killed a monster in the wilderness".
Joe

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