edit: climbing with care

General discussions of forests and trees that do not focus on a specific species or specific location.

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wisconsitom
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edit: climbing with care

Post by wisconsitom » Sat Mar 26, 2016 9:44 am

I've got to be honest here-I've often wondered too about all the ropes and other hiking apparati used to climb the big trees. Surely damage to the unique life communities found high up in the crowns of these trees is ongoing with all the attention..........and in particular, with the new focus on "active" nature recreation, where the point is no longer to passively take in the grandeur, but rather, to "conquer" it somehow via climbing, diving, parachuting, rafting......you get the point-action! These groves and indeed special places everywhere will not withstand these hoards for long.
Tom,
As a leader of the tree climbing community and speaking for it, I could write a book in response to what you've said. We understand and agree with your concern to preserve all life forms in and around trees, any trees. Without question. But I have to disagree with one point: In general it is not recreational tree climbers who are destroying our natural environment by trying to "conquer" the big trees. In fact the "conquer" mentality doesn't exist among recreational tree climbers. Never has. (We've worked very hard to keep it that way.) And there are not and never will be "hoards" of tree climbers in the redwoods, and certainly not in the national parks, where tree climbing is prohibited. Given the inherent dangers of and advanced knowledge required for climbing superlative trees, very few people are attempting it. When they do, they go with people who know (in the safety and "preservationist" sense) what they are doing.

I would venture to say that as a group, tree climbers climb trees for the sheer enjoyment of being "close to nature." Like members of the NTS, many of us are arborists and/or life-long naturalists. As a group, tree climbers are acutely conscious of our responsibility to preserve and protect the natural world and the trees we climb. We understand the fragility of life in the treetops, and we select our trees and our methods of climbing accordingly.

It may be that the in pictures you're seeing of ropes and apparatus used to climb the big trees, the gear belongs to the researchers who are exploring and documenting the tropical canopy. These researchers, too, are well-known for the caution and care with which they do their work. You probably agree that this work is very important not only to advance our understanding of life at the top of the forest, but also in bringing new awareness of the importance of forests to millions of people.

patty

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pattyjenkins1
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Re: The Forest Weeps + Before & After Photos of Redwood Tita

Post by pattyjenkins1 » Sat Mar 26, 2016 9:46 am

The above post is from me. Sorry, I did it incorrectly.
Patty Jenkins
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mdvaden
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Re: The Forest Weeps + Before & After Photos of Redwood Tita

Post by mdvaden » Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:41 pm

Why is there only two replies. It looks like both of you replied as a new topic to another topic.
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Matt Markworth
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Re: The Forest Weeps + Before & After Photos of Redwood Tita

Post by Matt Markworth » Sun Mar 27, 2016 2:05 pm

I've never encountered a tree climber with a peak bagger mentality, but if I did I wouldn't want to participate in that type of activity. Recreational tree climbing brings a great opportunity to see the trees in a whole new way. I do my best to tread lightly just like when walking in the root zone.

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mdvaden
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Re: The Forest Weeps + Before & After Photos of Redwood Tita

Post by mdvaden » Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:53 pm

Matt Markworth wrote:I've never encountered a tree climber with a peak bagger mentality, but if I did I wouldn't want to participate in that type of activity. Recreational tree climbing brings a great opportunity to see the trees in a whole new way. I do my best to tread lightly just like when walking in the root zone.

Matt
Matt ... maybe all of you should have copied your posts to the other thread rather than this one started incompletely with the identical title.

But to keep things streamlined with a brief interjection here, there are both types of climbers, regardless of how many you or Patti have or haven't met. Certainly there are far more who are ethical.

On the other hand, in the coast redwood old growth, virtually every illegal climber would have to be a "peak bagger" because they potentially put scientific gear at greater risk, and give a bad name to the rest of the climbing community.

There are definitely those who don't look for the legal options in private owned old growth.
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Matt Markworth
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Re: The Forest Weeps + Before & After Photos of Redwood Tita

Post by Matt Markworth » Sun Mar 27, 2016 5:40 pm

Mario,

That's a shame. Do you know of any fines/jail time news stories related to redwood abuse? My guess is that laws and law enforcement are stretched in so many other directions that penalties are very rare.

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mdvaden
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Re: The Forest Weeps + Before & After Photos of Redwood Tita

Post by mdvaden » Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:50 pm

Matt Markworth wrote:Mario,

That's a shame. Do you know of any fines/jail time news stories related to redwood abuse? My guess is that laws and law enforcement are stretched in so many other directions that penalties are very rare.

Matt
Author Beranek shared his personal account about the matter.

From what I understand, the ranger and parks 100% will follow-through on anybody they find posting a video or photos that self-incriminates. Taylor who found the world's tallest tree in 2006, shared he got fined after posting a video of flying a drone in more recent years.

Atkins and I when doing legitimate research measuring for Humboldt State Univ., related to LiDAR, were stopped at least twice by rangers curious what was in our long bags, Which were tripods for lasers and not crossbows.

So for illegal climbing, I know they will not limit there resources when it comes to enforcement. It just boils down to whether they hear about someone, find someone, or somebody posts recognizable evidence on the interenet.

Oh .. and yes, I've heard of several investigations. People don't hear much about it because the parks don't advertise busting people, and the busted people don't seem to like bragging about their fines.
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Matt Markworth
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Re: The Forest Weeps + Before & After Photos of Redwood Tita

Post by Matt Markworth » Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:25 pm

Mario,

Good to know that it's being taken seriously. Crimes inflicting redwood damage should be zero tolerance. It might help too if the fines got publicized a little. Once the offenses get some attention then potential offenders might think twice once they know that their employer and everyone in their circle will find out. Or, if that doesn't motivate then at least potential offenders will know that people are getting caught.

Matt

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Matt Markworth
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Re: edit: climbing with care

Post by Matt Markworth » Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:37 pm

I changed the subject line to "climbing with care" to more closely match the discussion.

wisconsitom
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Re: edit: climbing with care

Post by wisconsitom » Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:29 am

As I took pains to say initially, I have concerns. That's a far different statement than "you guys climbing the big trees are ruining everything" or words to that effect. I didn't say that. Yet obviously, some here took my words as some kind of personal accusation. Nothing could be further from the truth. I have every reason to expect that anyone-yes, anyone on this board responding to this commentary would be in the "good group", climbers who value the resources. It's all the folks who aren't members here, who don't read such forums, that concern me.

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