Carolina hemlock genetics study

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Steve Galehouse
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Carolina hemlock genetics study

Post by Steve Galehouse » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:34 pm

ENTS-

I received an e-mail from Robert Jetton of NCSU today, saying that a population genetics study of Carolina hemlock is planned for later this year, and that samples of the local Ohio populations will be taken. I'm hoping this will explain their existence in NE Ohio.

Steve
every plant is native somewhere

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DougBidlack
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Re: Carolina hemlock genetics study

Post by DougBidlack » Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:29 pm

Steve,

very cool! I hope you let us know how this goes. Hopefully the Ohio trees really are a disjunct population. Can't wait for the results!

Doug

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Steve Galehouse
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Re: Carolina hemlock genetics study

Post by Steve Galehouse » Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:55 pm

Doug-

I hope they are genetically distinct also, but if not, at least we'll probably know their provenance. At the very least these trees likely will be the last reproducing population exposed to HWA.

Steve
every plant is native somewhere

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Jess Riddle
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Re: Carolina hemlock genetics study

Post by Jess Riddle » Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:50 pm

Steve,

That's great new. I'm eager to hear what they find.

Jess

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Tom Kimmerer
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Re: Carolina hemlock genetics study

Post by Tom Kimmerer » Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:56 am

Steve, I am not familiar with Carolina hemlock in Ohio and don't see it on the range maps. Where are these trees? Are they a relict or disjunct population or planted?

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edfrank
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Re: Carolina hemlock genetics study

Post by edfrank » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:44 pm

Maclura,

That is what we are trying to figure out. Steve Galehouse found the first population a couple years ago. Some people at the park knew they were there, but assumed they were planted by the CCC. Looking at older photos it appears that they were well established at the time the CCC worked in the area. I believe they are a relict disjunct population, rather than a planted one.

http://www.ents-bbs.org/viewtopic.php?f=111&t=5065

https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en& ... XVMHQc08PI

https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en& ... EUg-hWhd-0

http://www.nativetreesociety.org/fieldt ... n_ohio.htm

There has been quite a bit of research done and contacting different people outside of the posts on the BBS and website also.

Edward Frank
"I love science and it pains me to think that so many are terrified of the subject or feel that choosing science means you cannot also choose compassion, or the arts, or be awe by nature. Science is not meant to cure us of mystery, but to reinvent and revigorate it." by Robert M. Sapolsky

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Steve Galehouse
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Re: Carolina hemlock genetics study

Post by Steve Galehouse » Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:50 pm

Maclura(Tom?)-

Here is a link to a photo album of these trees, which are located in the Ritchie Ledges/Virginia Kendall area of the CVNP, about a mile south of the Ohio Turnpike in Peninsula, OH. As Ed mentioned, we've been discussing these trees for some time---I think I first posted about them about five years ago; I've been observing them for the past 40+ years.

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/1075 ... 4963284833

Ed and I certainly think they could be a disjunct native population, due to: the relatively large size of some individuals, the fact that they are a mixed age/size reproducing population, that there are the expected associated species growing along with them, the site conditions are right for the species, and the fact that there is an extensive obviously native population of eastern hemlock growing adjacent to them(which could readily been used by the CCC for stock). These factors combined with the relative obscurity of the species, especially in park plantings(we know of no other CCC park projects that used the species) leads us to consider the possibility that they are native.

I showed these trees to Dr. Robert Jetton of NCSU two summers ago, and recently got a message that they would be included in the upcoming genetics study. My attempts to get more information on them through local universities, museums, and park systems have produced no solid results. Hopefully the genetic study can determine if they are distinct from the other southern populations, or at least from which southern population they were derived from.

Steve
every plant is native somewhere

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Tom Kimmerer
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Re: Carolina hemlock genetics study

Post by Tom Kimmerer » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:31 pm

This is a fascinating discovery, and I would love to see those trees. We pretty much accept Little's range maps (which were derived from Sargent's) as gospel, but relict or disjunct populations are easy to overlook. I have to agree with the prior discussion that it seems unlikely that these are CCC trees. I doubt they would have had access to Carolina hemlock in Ohio. If they are relict, they have to date from the post-glacial resorting of eastern forests. I look forward to learning more.

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Steve Galehouse
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Re: Carolina hemlock genetics study

Post by Steve Galehouse » Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:33 pm

Planning to meet Dr. Robert Jetton from NCSU at Ritchie Ledges on August 30, for sample collection for the genetics study. He also plans to collect seed in the Fall. I hope the provenance of this population will finally be determined.

Steve
every plant is native somewhere

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jasonbaker
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Re: Carolina hemlock genetics study

Post by jasonbaker » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:54 pm

Steve,

Do you know if the genetics study for these trees has been completed yet? I'm not familiar with how long that process takes and I was curious if there was any new information. That would be really cool if the CVNP Carolina Hemlocks are a native population.

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