Where goats Come From

General discussions of forests and trees that do not focus on a specific species or specific location.

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edfrank
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Where goats Come From

Post by edfrank » Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:29 pm

goats.jpg
Arab Group For The Protection Of Nature . العربية لحماية الطبيعة
https://www.facebook.com/APNature

In Morocco - goats graze not only on the land, but on trees. Because of acute shortage of grass, goats climb and feed on Argan Trees. The task of the shepherds, is to collect seeds from the fruits that the goats spit to produce valuable oil used in cosmetics and
cooking.

في المغرب يتغذى الماعز على ثمار شجرة الاركان و هي شجرة نادرة لها قدرة هائلة على مقاومة الجفاف ومحاربة التصحر . يقوم الرعاة بالتقاط البذور لقيمتها في صناعة زيوت خاصة بالطعام و التجميل
"I love science and it pains me to think that so many are terrified of the subject or feel that choosing science means you cannot also choose compassion, or the arts, or be awe by nature. Science is not meant to cure us of mystery, but to reinvent and revigorate it." by Robert M. Sapolsky

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Rand
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Re: Where goats Come From

Post by Rand » Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:20 pm

I've lost track of how many people trying to preserve semi-arid woodlands bemoan the plague of goats eating everything in sight. The first time I saw that picture I about tossed my cookies.

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PAwildernessadvocate
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Re: Where goats Come From

Post by PAwildernessadvocate » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:04 pm

In the right situation goats can be used for non-native invasive vegetation control. Better for the environment than herbicides, and doesn't involve a lot of manual labor. The goats do all the work, ha ha! I've suggested goats to help control a European buckthorn (Rhamnus cathartica) outbreak in the Allegheny National Forest in Elk County, but don't know if the Forest Service is seriously considering it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsldULFSROc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwFJ89N1ARU
"There is no better way to save biodiversity than by preserving habitat, and no better habitat, species for species, than wilderness." --Edward O. Wilson

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Will Blozan
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Re: Where goats Come From

Post by Will Blozan » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:46 pm

Joe,

Problem is, goats are not botanists. I have a diverse woodland with rare shrubs intermixed with crap-ass invasives. Until they can tell the difference I will have to weed it by hand.

Will

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Rand
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Re: Where goats Come From

Post by Rand » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:04 pm

Will Blozan wrote:Joe,

Problem is, goats are not botanists. I have a diverse woodland with rare shrubs intermixed with crap-ass invasives. Until they can tell the difference I will have to weed it by hand.

Will

Lemme guess, one of those groups of plants is significantly tastier than the other....

Joe

Re: Where goats Come From

Post by Joe » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:46 am

I know little about any farm animals--- so one day when I'm walking with a forestry client- the guy's goat tagged along- as we walked next to a stone wall, the goat jumped up on the wall and continued to walk on it for a few hundred yards- for no reason at all. I thought it was rather funny at the time.
Joe

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PAwildernessadvocate
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Re: Where goats Come From

Post by PAwildernessadvocate » Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:57 am

Will Blozan wrote: Problem is, goats are not botanists. I have a diverse woodland with rare shrubs intermixed with crap-ass invasives. Until they can tell the difference I will have to weed it by hand.
Yeah definitely sounds like it's not a situation for goats. They don't exactly seem to have "discriminating tastes"!
"There is no better way to save biodiversity than by preserving habitat, and no better habitat, species for species, than wilderness." --Edward O. Wilson

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Don
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Re: Where goats Come From

Post by Don » Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:18 pm

Joe-
It's sometimes hard to tell how domestication impacts DNA...mountain goats here in Alaska are flat amazing to watch! They traverse rocky, cliffy terrain that would cause today's highly equipped rock climbers to catch their breath. I recall in my GIS days working with goat/sheep wildlife biologists, to model their habitat preferences. It's been long enough now that the specific numbers have faded away, but the constraints haven't...they want steep and rocky barrens, island-like in seas of grassy shrubby veg, not so far apart that they couldn't evade their predators moving from one to another. They had preferences for elevation/aspect/slope, all items that are reasonably modeled in a GIS system.
In any case, they're a joy watch...we're fortunate here in Anchorage to be able to drive a half-hour south along Turnagain Arm and often view them from roadside turnouts.
-Don

Joe wrote:I know little about any farm animals--- so one day when I'm walking with a forestry client- the guy's goat tagged along- as we walked next to a stone wall, the goat jumped up on the wall and continued to walk on it for a few hundred yards- for no reason at all. I thought it was rather funny at the time.
Joe
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Chris
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Re: Where goats Come From

Post by Chris » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:23 pm

PAwildernessadvocate wrote:
Will Blozan wrote: Problem is, goats are not botanists. I have a diverse woodland with rare shrubs intermixed with crap-ass invasives. Until they can tell the difference I will have to weed it by hand.
Yeah definitely sounds like it's not a situation for goats. They don't exactly seem to have "discriminating tastes"!
They also have problems with their waste. Some seeds have no problem making it through an animal's digestive cycle. For those plants, goats (or any grazer) is a good spread and fertilizer of invasive plants.

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Rand
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Re: Where goats Come From

Post by Rand » Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:07 pm

I stumbled upon an interesting counterpoint to the usual 'Livestock destroys semi-arid environments' saw by a guy called Allan Savory. In a nutshell he posits that livestock grazing is essential to maintaining semi-arid grasslands, because they break down old growth, making way for and fertilizing the next season's growth, while also maintaing ground cover during the dry season and the organic content of the soil (unlike fire). The trick being is that the grazing has to be locally intense and of short duration, giving the grasses time to recover before being grazed again. This movement mimics the way natural herds bunch to avoid predators and migrate with the seasons.

Controversial and thought provoking, but the before and after picture are stunning:

http://vimeo.com/8239427

You can find a shorter version at TED.com with a lot of back and forth discussion:

http://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_h ... hange.html

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