Tall Southern Ohio Tuliptree

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Larry Tucei
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Re: Tall Southern Ohio Tuliptree

Post by Larry Tucei » Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:13 am

Bob- I think based on Tulips that I have measured in the far southern range 140' might be close to the maximum. Larry

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dbhguru
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Re: Tall Southern Ohio Tuliptree

Post by dbhguru » Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:09 pm

Larry,

I expect you are correct. That is also the maximum here in Massachusetts. I think the species reaches or exceeds 140 feet for a swing of about 10 degrees of latitude. I believe the tulip trees in Green lake, NY are among the tallest in a northeasterly direction that we have documented. I don't know what they achieve in Michigan. The numbers in the big tree lists there have been so inflated that we have to build the Michigan database from scratch. Doug Bidlack has his work cut out for him. He will need help. After we have the first AF meeting with state coordinators on Jan 7th, we may see the winds of change begin to blow. Significant improvements to champion tree registers will take at least a year to occur, maybe two, and certainly by three.

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

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Matt Markworth
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Re: Tall Southern Ohio Tuliptree

Post by Matt Markworth » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:43 pm

dbhguru wrote:Matt,

Do you have a good summary for tulip trees in Ohio? Like white pine, we've collected a mountain of measurements for the species and should be able to make some projections.

We have data for the species in a number of states including North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania, New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, and Ohio. We have a little data from other states including Kentucky, Indiana, Illinois, Alabama, Arkansas, Michigan, etc., but I don't think we can nail down reliable maximums for the latter states yet.

I'm really curious about Indiana. The tulip tree is Indiana's state tree.

Bob
Bob,

I don't have a summary spreadsheet, but the Trees database has about 115 tuliptrees for Ohio. I'll add some of my recent finds to the database. I believe that we have one site in Ohio with a confirmed 170 footer, four sites with confirmed 160 footers, and more sites confirmed with 150 footers. So far in Indiana the tallest confirmed is 155.9'.

Here's a map showing a rough sketch of some of the tallest confirmed sites. The sizes of the red dots are exaggerated to make them easier to see on the map.
Ohio,Indiana TT.jpg
Ohio,Indiana TT.jpg (58.28 KiB) Viewed 947 times
Matt

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Matt Markworth
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Re: Tall Southern Ohio Tuliptree

Post by Matt Markworth » Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:18 pm

All,

I returned to the Hocking Hills region and the scenery and the tree heights continue to impress. Farther down the ravine from the 165.5' tuliptree resides a 10'2" x 146' northern red oak. I'm not convinced that I measured the top because it seems that this tree has a hundred potential tops. The trees around it are so dense that I didn't have any luck backing up and isolating the top from a distance. This tree matches the 146' northern red oak at Sand Run and along with that tree becomes the tallest known oak in Ohio. I also measured hemlocks at 137', 133', and 9'10" x 126.5'.
146' NRO top
146' NRO top
146' NRO trunk
146' NRO trunk
9'10" x 126.5' eastern hemlock
9'10" x 126.5' eastern hemlock
Small hemlock with dense hemlocks in the background
Small hemlock with dense hemlocks in the background
big burl
big burl
Scene at nearby Conkle's Hollow
Scene at nearby Conkle's Hollow
Matt
Last edited by Matt Markworth on Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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dbhguru
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Re: Tall Southern Ohio Tuliptree

Post by dbhguru » Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:20 pm

Matt,

You da man! I continue to be impressed with Ohio's potential. By rights, with their deep soils, Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois sall hould all have outstanding trees. Thanks to you, Rand, and Steve, Ohio is leading the race in the MId-west. Dang, we need someone in Indiana to come forward and join our ranks.

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

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sradivoy
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Re: Tall Southern Ohio Tuliptree

Post by sradivoy » Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:26 pm

It looks like the NRO is on the verge of reaching the 150 ft club in Ohio. I wonder if LiDAR has a better chance in finding the actual top in trees with multiple leaders, or is it somekind of average reading. Probably the latter.

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Matt Markworth
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Re: Tall Southern Ohio Tuliptree

Post by Matt Markworth » Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:28 pm

Bob,

Thanks, Ohio continues to impress me as well, both with trees and scenery. When I recently walked around the rim trail of the gorge at Conkle's Hollow (a nature preserve nestled within Hocking Hills State Forest), I was briefly reminded of the canyons in Colorado and I was especially pleased that such a place exists so close to home. I measured the vertical distance from the creek to the top of the sheer cliff of the gorge as 185'.

S Radivoy,

It would be awesome if we could break 150' for an oak in Ohio!

In flat terrain, LiDAR can be encouragingly accurate at giving a close approximation of the actual tree height. Of course, accuracy is reduced with steep terrain because the ground point directly below the tallest hit isn't likely to be at the same level as the base of the tree. I'm not aware of any averaging in the Ohio LiDAR dataset that would affect the ability to isolate individual LiDAR hits.

Matt

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Rand
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Re: Tall Southern Ohio Tuliptree

Post by Rand » Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:59 pm

Matt Markworth wrote:Bob,

Thanks, Ohio continues to impress me as well, both with trees and scenery. When I recently walked around the rim trail of the gorge at Conkle's Hollow (a nature preserve nestled within Hocking Hills State Forest), I was briefly reminded of the canyons in Colorado and I was especially pleased that such a place exists so close to home. I measured the vertical distance from the creek to the top of the sheer cliff of the gorge as 185'.

Matt
It's kinda neat to walk along the rim there, look down on the sea of young tuliptrees growing in the bottom of Conkles hollow and imagine that they just might get that high at some point.

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sradivoy
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Re: Tall Southern Ohio Tuliptree

Post by sradivoy » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:29 pm

Matt Markworth wrote:Bob,

S Radivoy,

It would be awesome if we could break 150' for an oak in Ohio!

In flat terrain, LiDAR can be encouragingly accurate at giving a close approximation of the actual tree height. Of course, accuracy is reduced with steep terrain because the ground point directly below the tallest hit isn't likely to be at the same level as the base of the tree. I'm not aware of any averaging in the Ohio LiDAR dataset that would affect the ability to isolate individual LiDAR hits.

Matt
The tall red oak from Sand Run may have grown some since last measured four years ago. BTW, I think your Tulip is the the second tallest known tree in the state depending on how much the other two known 163' tulips - one in Sand Run and the other in Clearfork - have grown since last measured a few years ago as well.

Stefan R

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Matt Markworth
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Re: Tall Southern Ohio Tuliptree

Post by Matt Markworth » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:36 pm

Rand wrote:
It's kinda neat to walk along the rim there, look down on the sea of young tuliptrees growing in the bottom of Conkles hollow and imagine that they just might get that high at some point.
The tuliptree outlines were really cool, and along with the Virginia pines and hemlocks the whole place is magical.

Here's a quick Iphone photo:
IMG_1512.JPG

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