My first "big" tree catch!

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sradivoy
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Re: My first "big" tree catch!

Post by sradivoy » Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:17 pm

mdvaden wrote:That's a nice tree.

How about a human for scale ... lol

Hey, when I first read your post, my eyes wandered to the 2nd line's 221 inches for girth ... and at first I thought it was 221 ft for height ... !!!!

Looks like a rock solid tree.

...
I 'll make sure to bring my tripod next time or ask someone passing by. My only option at the time was to set my camera in the grass at ground level. I could have (and should have) snapped a shot with one hand while tape measuring the tree however.

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sradivoy
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Re: My first "big" tree catch!

Post by sradivoy » Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:46 pm

bbeduhn wrote:MLK Boulevard, or as I knew it in my youth, Liberty Boulevard, was constructed in 1897, after land was donated by billionaire industrialist John D. Rockefeller. I would guess that the red oak was planted within a year of that date. If so, that is a very fast growing tree for Northen Ohio. There is a nine mile long strip of white oaks running from Gordon Park, by Lake Erie, to Shaker Heights, called Liberty Row, which was planted in 1919, to commemmorate the end of WWI. What other tree treasures lurk along MLK Boulevard?
A true local caught my nostalgic Liberty blvd. reference ( no disrespect to MLK or Rockefeller, but Libery just sounds better). I didn't know about The Liberty Row white oaks. There is a ring of mature white oaks along a meadow in Forest Hills Park that I recently visited which of course was the home of Rockefeller's country estate. I do not recommend hiking there alone. I made for an easy target. Fortunately I wasn't noticed. This was in the middle of the day mind you. Rockefeller park is fine during the day, but you would be crazy to go there at night. East Cleveland is the poorest city in Ohio. The desperation is understandably palatable.

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bbeduhn
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Re: My first "big" tree catch!

Post by bbeduhn » Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:50 pm

Have you searched Forest Hills Park? I seem to remember a few big trees there. There are trails with northern exposure that might have some quality. The old Rockefeller summer home site is by the duck pond in East Cleveland.

I don't blame you for being very cautious in Rockefeller Park or Forest Hills for that matter.

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mdavie
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Re: My first "big" tree catch!

Post by mdavie » Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:29 am

That doesn't look quite like NRO to me; more like a red/black hybrid or something. Maybe it's just regional variation, but the bark looks different and the leaf shape and thickness are slightly different from what I'm used to with NRO.

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sradivoy
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Re: My first "big" tree catch!

Post by sradivoy » Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:40 am

mdavie wrote:That doesn't look quite like NRO to me; more like a red/black hybrid or something. Maybe it's just regional variation, but the bark looks different and the leaf shape and thickness are slightly different from what I'm used to with NRO.
I don't know why the two species are seperated in the first place. There is too much overlapping ambiguity and subjectivity in their characteristics in my view. If closely related species can readily hybridize with each other they should be regarded as variations or "races" of the same species in my view. Much like the various races of humans can readily hybridize with each other with their offspring. I'm sure the analogy isn't perfect however.

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Ranger Dan
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black oak vs. northern red

Post by Ranger Dan » Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:48 am

About black oak vs. northern red: I'm no high-ranking expert, but what I always use to distinguish the two is by a couple things I'm surprised weren't mentioned. First, the leaves of black oak are pubescent all over the back side, while NR has hairs only in the axils of the veins. Second, the buds are very different, at least every time I've looked. Peterson says this is the best I.D. characteristic of all. NR has shiny, rounded, mahogany-colored buds, while black oak buds are larger, sharply angled, four-sided, pubescent, and grayish. The buds are developed and visible by midsummer...you don't have to wait for the leaves to fall.

Peattie says the acorns of northern red are quite variable. Typically, the cap of NR oak is rather flat. Peterson mentions Quercus rubra v. borealis, which has a deeper acorn cap, covering 1/3 of the nut. (Perhaps this is the variety in the image posted.) Its range is New England to Northern PA, west to Michigan, and along the Appalachians to North Carolina. (Never heard of it! Glad I looked it up!) The profile of the cap is different between the two species. NR has a rounded profile on the edge of the cap, and meets the seed at almost a right angle. They are smooth and hard-looking. Black oak caps have a feathered edge that meets the seed with a smoother profile. The cap of a black oak acorn is finely gray-hairy, with fringe-like scales at the edge.

I understand that oaks often hybridize, or at least they appear to. But how would anyone know for sure, outside of laboratory genetic analysis, unless two recognized species were deliberately crossed under controlled conditions?

Dan Miles

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sradivoy
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Re: My first "big" tree catch!

Post by sradivoy » Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:44 am

Thanks for your valuable feedback Dan! I still have the acorn and it has all the characteristics of Quercus rubra v. borealis (acron cap covers 1/3 of nut; rounded profile at edge of cap that meets the seed at almost right angle). I bought the Peterson guide a couple of days ago. I have the National Audubon Society field guide that mentions that the black oak can be easily distinguished by its yellow or orange inner bark. I have no idea what the color of the inner bark of the NRO is.
Last edited by sradivoy on Mon Oct 27, 2014 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Erik Danielsen
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Re: My first "big" tree catch!

Post by Erik Danielsen » Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:25 pm

NRO inner bark doesn't have any particularly distinctive color. When you core a black oak, though, you know. It's pretty bright. On rapidly growing younger black oaks the fissures that result from the expansion of the smooth outer bark sometimes expose a subtle glimpse of that intense yellow-to-red color.

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