Mill Stream Run Reservation

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Steve Galehouse
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Mill Stream Run Reservation

Post by Steve Galehouse » Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:49 pm

NTS_

Yesterday oldest son Mitch and I visited Mill Stream Run Reservation in Berea. This is an extensive Metropark with quite a few different forest types. We concentrated on a floodplain area near a creek with flat topography and some areas of standing water. The species present were typical of other floodplain forests in the area, with two exceptions---pin oak was absent from this woods, and cucumber-tree was present. This is the first time I've found cucumber in a flat, seasonally flooded woods, and this is also the the first time I've not seen pin oak as a substantial part of the species mix. By far the most impressive trees were the swamp white oaks, with a number in the 11' to 12' CBH range, and decent heights. The tallest swamp white was 117.4' x 11' 7'', the fattest 12' 1'' x 106.4'. The tallest and biggest individual tree encountered was a sycamore at 119.2' x 14' CBH. Overall for the site we got a Rucker 5 of 115.6 and a Rucker 10 of 109.63. Details of trees found are here: http://alpha.treesdb.org/Browse/Sites/1019/Details

Swamp white oak, 12' 1'' x 106.4':
swamp white oak trunk106,4' x 12' 1''.jpg
swamp white oak top106,4' x 12' 1''.jpg
Cucumber on left, northern red oak on right:
Cucumber-red oak.jpg
Steve
every plant is native somewhere

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Larry Tucei
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Re: Mill Stream Run Reservation

Post by Larry Tucei » Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:01 pm

Steve, Really nice looking place with some fine specimens. The Next time you see a Swamp White could you get a photo of a leaf? Thanks, Larry

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Steve Galehouse
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Re: Mill Stream Run Reservation

Post by Steve Galehouse » Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:32 pm

Larry Tucei wrote:The Next time you see a Swamp White could you get a photo of a leaf? Thanks, Larry
Larry-

Here is a photo of swamp white oak foliage, on the right, compared with bur oak on the left. Both have glossier upper surfaces compared with white oak, and swamp white oak has a distinctive white lower leaf surface. Photo was taken in the Fall of 2010.
SWO,BO.jpg
Steve
every plant is native somewhere

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Larry Tucei
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Re: Mill Stream Run Reservation

Post by Larry Tucei » Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:45 am

Steve, Thanks for the photo comparison. The reason I asked, I think I see Swamp White Oak down in our Southern Forests but the Forest Guides show it not ranging down this far. Sometimes I wonder how accurate this maps really are. Larry

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DougBidlack
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Re: Mill Stream Run Reservation

Post by DougBidlack » Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:01 am

Larry,

is it possible you're finding swamp chestnut oaks? The leaves and habitat are similar.

Doug

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Steve Galehouse
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Re: Mill Stream Run Reservation

Post by Steve Galehouse » Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:21 pm

Larry, Doug-

Yes, I think the trees that look similar to swamp white oak in the Deep South are likely Quercus michauxii, swamp chestnut oak, also called basket oak and cow oak. The foliage is very similar but swamp white foliage has only about six pairs of lobes or rounded teeth, while swamp chestnut has about twice as many, A link to a photo of swamp chestnut leaves here: http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&safe ... -Ag&zoom=1

Steve
every plant is native somewhere

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Larry Tucei
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Re: Mill Stream Run Reservation

Post by Larry Tucei » Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:55 pm

Steve, Doug. What I'm seeing is not Swamp Chestnut or Chestnut Oak. It is either a Swamp White Oak or maybe a hybrid- Can White Oak cross with Swamp Chestnut? Next time I see one I'll get a leaf and photograph it. Thanks Guys.

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gnmcmartin
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Re: Mill Stream Run Reservation

Post by gnmcmartin » Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:22 am

Can white oak hybridize with swamp chestnut oak? Yes, and it is sometimes called Beadles oak. You can Google this and find a youtube video (which I have not seen) and a nursery that offers them for sale.

In general, the oaks in the white oak group hybridize with each other. I know that there are a good number of hybrids with eastern white oak, and between English oak (Q. robur) and American oaks of the white oak group. "Burenglish" can be a spectacular performer.

--Gaines

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Larry Tucei
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Re: Mill Stream Run Reservation

Post by Larry Tucei » Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:01 am

Gaines, Thanks for the info. Maybe what I'm finding is Beadles Oak. http://shop.mossyoak.com/p-33-white-x-s ... adlei.aspx Larry

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Will Blozan
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Re: Mill Stream Run Reservation

Post by Will Blozan » Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:09 pm

Larry,

What about Q. lyrata; overcup?

Will

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