North Chagrin Reservation

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Steve Galehouse
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Re: North Chagrin Reservation

Post by Steve Galehouse » Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:20 pm

Dan-

The woods with creeks draining to the Cuyahoga, Rocky, and Black Rivers have a more mixed-mesophytic association, with buckeye, wafer-ash, and paw-paw, but also have a western influence with bur and yellow chestnut(chinquapin) oak in some areas. All the trees represented at North Chagrin are present as well, but white pine becomes very scarce and local.

Steve
every plant is native somewhere

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dantheman9758
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Re: North Chagrin Reservation

Post by dantheman9758 » Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:22 am


Click on image to see its original size

I wonder if this contributes to your observation within in such a short area. 40-70 inches of snow vs 80-100 - maybe not that significant but it's the first difference between locations that came to mind.

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edfrank
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Re: North Chagrin Reservation

Post by edfrank » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:17 am

NTS,

I found the following map:
b700_01.jpg
b700_01.jpg (28.56 KiB) Viewed 2138 times
As an illustration for the Ohio Trees, Bulletin 700-00 by Ohio State. http://ohioline.osu.edu/b700/b700_05.html

The high snowfall area of the map in the previous post corresponds well to the area marked on this map as Beech-Maple. I am not sure of the original source for this designation.

Ed
"I love science and it pains me to think that so many are terrified of the subject or feel that choosing science means you cannot also choose compassion, or the arts, or be awe by nature. Science is not meant to cure us of mystery, but to reinvent and revigorate it." by Robert M. Sapolsky

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dantheman9758
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Re: North Chagrin Reservation

Post by dantheman9758 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:39 pm

Ed

This is an excellent find!

You may have found a connection to Lake-Effect snow/storms that I'm not sure anyone has pointed out before. Buffalo NY gets a fair bit of Lake-Effect, any idea what native forest was once, or is still there?

All the localities on the map are the Late-Holocene climatic climax forests of Ohio. It would also be interesting to find out how many examples of these forest-types remain throughout the State. I know of at least two sites within a 30 minutes drive that are old enough to be of the native Beech-Maple association, and up until recently there was one more (A school has been built on its grounds now). The big one is North Chagrin, the other remaining site is not 1 mile north of Chagrin, called Hatch Otis sanctuary which I believe is about 40 acres. The site that has now been replaced by a private school was about 1 or 2 miles to the south of North Chagrin, and was about 60 acres. There's a research paper that was completed on it before it was cut down that made a lot of references and comparisons to the North Chagrin old-growth I'll have to find it and post it.

Also interesting is that in North Chagrin, and nowhere else that I'm aware is a glimpse of the fading climax forest that once covered the area in the earlier half of the Holocene. It's a Beech-Chestnut-Hemlock-Oak forest, and interestingly all of the old Black gum tree's I see are only found in these sections, as well as 90 percent or more of the cucumber, black cherry, and sassafras of the park. It covers maybe 11 percent of the park. Apparently it is in a steady natural decline, likely as a result of the gradual changes of climatic conditions. I haven't seen any literature that directly implies this, but it may be the forest-type that immediately succeeded the Late-Pleistocene Spruce-Fir forests that today can be found in places like Labrador Canada.

I'm rambling a bit haha, but I feel it helps to learn about the past to understand the present.

Thanks again for that map Ed!

Dan

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edfrank
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Re: North Chagrin Reservation

Post by edfrank » Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:23 pm

Dan,

I would feel better about the chart if I knew where it came from and how it was derived. I did find another chart:
for_13.jpg
for_13.jpg (44.5 KiB) Viewed 2122 times
from Forests of Ohio, ODNR-Division of Forestry, Ohio State University Extension http://ohioline.osu.edu/forests/forst_5.html
Ohio is considered to be part of the Appalachian Hardwood Region based on the type of trees common in the state. There are more than 100 hardwood and 25 softwood tree species growing in Ohio. In addition to shrubs, there are more than 300 different woody species found in Ohio's forests. Some of the most diverse temperate region forests in North America are found in Ohio. The Survey estimated that there are more than 65 billion trees and shrubs on the 7.9 million acres of forests, for an average of more than 8,000 woody stems per acre. There are more than 1 billion trees 5 inches dbh (diameter breast high) and larger.

Species Composition
Species composition. Based on cubic foot volume of growing stock.

Though there are a great many species, between 10 and 20 tree species comprise the majority of all trees in Ohio forests. By volume, six species groups account for two-thirds of all trees. The most abundant species are the red and white oaks, which make up almost 25 percent of the total tree volume, followed by red and sugar maple, which comprise 18 percent. Yellow poplar and hickory make up another 18 percent, and white ash accounts for 8 percent.

There was a noticeable change in the relative composition of growing stock (trees of all sizes) since the 1979 survey. Whereas the red and white oaks made up 32 percent of the total wood volume in 1979, they accounted for only 25 percent by 1991. At the same time, the maples increased from 13 percent in 1979 to 18 percent by 1991.

Certain tree species in the forest grow near one another due to several factors such as soil type and terrain (hills or bottom land). For example, sugar maple, beech, and yellow birch grow in similar conditions and are considered a separate forest type.

In Ohio, there are 43 different forest types. Within the major forest type known as oak/hickory, for example, there are as many as 14 different forest types.
Here also is a map of Ohio Soil regions from Ohio History Central:

Click on image to see its original size

The boundaries of the forest types seems to be quite strongly linked to the soil types in northeast Ohio. The correlation to snowfall amounts might just be coincidental.


.
"I love science and it pains me to think that so many are terrified of the subject or feel that choosing science means you cannot also choose compassion, or the arts, or be awe by nature. Science is not meant to cure us of mystery, but to reinvent and revigorate it." by Robert M. Sapolsky

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edfrank
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Re: North Chagrin Reservation

Post by edfrank » Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:53 pm

I also found a nice geology field trip guide to the Cuyahoga Valley NRA online at:

https://kb.osu.edu/dspace/handle/1811/23237
https://kb.osu.edu/dspace/bitstream/han ... sequence=1
Geology and Habitats of the Cuyahoga Valley National Recreation Area, Ohio1
ROBERT G. CORBETT and BARBARA M. MANNER, Department of Geology, The University of Akron, Akron, OH 44325
ABSTRACT. This field trip to the Cuyahoga Valley National Recreation Area in northeast Ohio has been
prepared in association with the National Association of Geology Teachers' (NAGT) symposium entitled
"Public Lands and the Teaching of Geology." Stops are in a logical sequence to examine the geologic section,
glacial deposits, and the following habitats: slump, hemlock ravine, upland dry woods, floodplain, slope, old
field and wetland. Activity by man is minimal; sites are accessible and protected from future development;
and the sequence of stops follows ages of bedrock, oldest to youngest. In order to protect the sites, national
park policy prohibits collection of samples.
Shallow marine black shales of Devonian age, offshore marine, coastal, fluvial, and marine sedimentary
rocks of Mississippian age, and braided stream sandstones of Pennsylvanian age are exposed in stream valleys.
Stratified and unstratified deposits of Wisconsinan age cap the area.
Three contradictory hypotheses (i.e., continental lower, marine upper; eolian; and fluvial and tidal channel)
on the origin of Berea Sandstone are considered at field sites. Geologic terrain and geomorphic history have
influenced development of the seven habitats.
OHIO J. SCI. 88 (1): 40-47, 1988
Much of this material would be applicable to North Chagrin area also.
.
"I love science and it pains me to think that so many are terrified of the subject or feel that choosing science means you cannot also choose compassion, or the arts, or be awe by nature. Science is not meant to cure us of mystery, but to reinvent and revigorate it." by Robert M. Sapolsky

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Rand
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Re: North Chagrin Reservation

Post by Rand » Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:21 pm

Here's some of the pictures I took:
big oak.JPG
big beech.jpg
125.7' American Elm
125.7' American Elm
127.7' Sugar Maple
127.7' Sugar Maple
Elegant looking Hornbeam growing in the shade of the 127.7' sugar maple
Elegant looking Hornbeam growing in the shade of the 127.7' sugar maple
Sleeping Ent (Beechbone?)
Sleeping Ent (Beechbone?)
snail.jpg
cicada killer.jpg
ck.jpg
Steve thought this might be a cicada killer. The big ovipositor doesn't really match up with the pictures I later looked at online and makes me think it's some kind of mimic. Anybody know?

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jamesrobertsmith
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Re: North Chagrin Reservation

Post by jamesrobertsmith » Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:36 pm

Not sure what that insect is, but it looks a lot like the critters that were crawling on my pack at the summit of Avalanche Peak in Yellowstone last August.


Click on image to see its original size
Male and female? Sexual dimorphism?

And some more amazing trees from your patch of woods. I'm amazed at what you've located up there.

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dantheman9758
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Re: North Chagrin Reservation

Post by dantheman9758 » Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:08 am

Steve,

Do either of those soil types from the above map describe Sand Run?

Now that I see the Glacial Drift vs Glacial Lake deposit boundaries it makes sense why Painesville township's soil (where I grew up) was very sandy/dusty and dis-similar in appearance, texture, and drainage compared with the area's surrounding North Chagrin.

Sand Run doesn't fall within the area of glacial lake deposits as well does is it? I thought it was farther to the south

Dan

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DougBidlack
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Re: North Chagrin Reservation

Post by DougBidlack » Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:19 am

Rand,

the insect is a horntail. It is in the order Hymenoptera along with all bees, wasps, ants etc. It is in the family Siricidae and it looks like the species might be Tremex columba, a rather large and common horntail. The larvae burrow into trees. They are native and they have really cool natural enemies...these absolutely huge ichneumonid wasps that can hear the larvae burrowing in the trees and the females have these super long ovipositors that they use to drill through the wood and lay their eggs into the horntail larvae. Way cool!

Doug

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