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Re: Walker Cove Big Ivy/Coleman Boundary NC

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:55 am
by bbeduhn
Just a few numbers from two locations,

Straight Creek

Betula allegheniensis yellow birch
99.0' 85.4' 84.6' 82.0'
They're all in a line of 30 yards or so

Acer saccharum sugar maple

Lirio tulip tuliptree update on the tallest on Straight Creek

Middle Fork, Ivy Creek

Pinus strobus white pine
tallest pine in the Ivy Creek watershed

Re: Walker Cove Big Ivy/Coleman Boundary NC

Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:31 am
by dbhguru

You have amassed a highly valuable dataset on tall trees by site in the southern Appalachians. I encourage you to put it all together in a PDF organized by state and site. Basically, you are the only one left in the mountain South of an original strong southern team of tree measurers, and we salute your persistence. We need to figure out a route forward to promote your work to organizations, public and private, that would (theoretically) appreciate it. You could submit it under the banner of NTS.


Re: Walker Cove Big Ivy/Coleman Boundary NC

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:27 pm
by bbeduhn
I am currently working on a major data project. I don't have the ability to start a spreadsheet but I will have some very organized data to peruse by next week.

Re: Walker Cove Big Ivy/Coleman Boundary NC

Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:35 pm
by bbeduhn
I tried a new trail in the North Big Ivy watershed. It pitters out after several hundred yards and passes through some slope/coves, with a southern exposure. It sounds like a waste of time. I just measured a handful of tulips but if there is some more age higher up, this could be a hot spot.

Lirio tulip

153.8' 152.8' 151.7' 149.7' 148.4' 148.3' 147.8' 146.8'

Carya alba

107.3' 104.5'

The tulips are young and growing nicely. One cove is covered in herb layer.

Re: Walker Cove Big Ivy/Coleman Boundary NC

Posted: Fri May 15, 2020 11:12 am
by bbeduhn
An unnamed trail travels along a small stream into an old growth site. Northern hardwood species dominate as the forest transitions from second growth to old growth.

red oak 137.1'
Bilt ash 125.7' 121.6'
sugar map 116.2'
red map 111.9'
basswood 132.0' 121.2'
yellow birch 92.3' 89.3' 87.8'
pin cherry 85.5' on the ground
black cherry 111.6' 107.8'
black birch 101.5'
tulip 141.3' 137.8'

Along 197

white pine 147.5' 140.1' 139.8' 139.0'
red oak 132.0'
tulip 156.7' 149.7' 143.5'

Re: Walker Cove Big Ivy/Coleman Boundary NC

Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 10:17 am
by bbeduhn
I got the chance to get out on my own without the family so I got into some very nice coves along 197, in the North Fork section. These coves are very accessible, being off the side of the road. The first one was primarily old growth with large sugar maples, cherries, red oaks and Biltmore ash. Tulips and buckeyes are all second growth, the tulips spilling in from coves on either side, which are second growth. I've seen just one large, old growth buckeye so far in Big Ivy. Cherries get quite tall but a red oak and an ash were the stars of the cove. This is the first hophornbeam I've come across in Big Ivy outside of The Walker Cove Research Area.

Biltmore ash
149.6' ~10'cbh, old growth, 139.9' 136.1' 135.9' 135.0' 128.8'

black cherry
131.3' 131.2' 123.8'

sugar maple
130.1' 120.6'

red oak
146.2' ~11' cbh, growing on a low ridge at side of cove

white basswood
127.8' 125.0' 122.6'

yellow buckeye
116.2' 112.6'

black locust


black birch


153.5' 146.4' 145.8' 145.2' 145.2'

A few coves up, I was greeted with the finest site of Biltmore ash I've ever seen. A cove is dominated by ash. These are all second growth and growing like rockets! The tallest is about two feet in diameter. Tulips are holding their own on the edges but most of the cove is thoroughly dominated by ash. The largest tulip, a bit older than the others, is the largest and tallest tree, but the ash are the stars.

Biltmore ash
146.0' 140.0' 137.1' 133.2' 133.2' 132.9' 132.3' 132.1' 131.5' 130.0' 130.0' 129.9' 129.8' 128.2' 127.5' 127.1' 125.9'

153.9' 153.4' 150.9' 145.2'

red oak

yellow buckeye

It is likely that these coves will be treated for EAB. The trees all appear to be healthy. Most ashes in the area have succombed.

Re: Walker Cove Big Ivy/Coleman Boundary NC

Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 10:29 am
by bbeduhn
The North Fork Ivy River Rucker has grown a good bit. Big Ivy overall has increased as well.

North Fork
R10 = 139.87'
R5 = 147.80'

1. tuliptree 163.4'
2. Biltmore ash 149.6'
3. white pine 147.5'
4. red oak 146.2'
5. cucumbertree 135.4'
6. white basswood 135.2'
7. sugar maple 135.0'
8. black cherry 131.3'
9. red maple 129.2'
10. chestnut oak 129.0'

Big Ivy overall
R10 = 145.93'
R5 = 154.60'

1. white pine 166.4'
2. tuliptree 163.4'
3. Biltmore ash 149.6'
4. hemlock 147.4'
5. red oak 146.2'
6. pignut hickory 141.1'
7. cucumbertree 138.0'
8. bitternut hickory 137.0'
9. white basswood 135.2'
10. sugar maple 135.0'

Re: Walker Cove Big Ivy/Coleman Boundary NC

Posted: Fri May 29, 2020 8:55 am
by bbeduhn
Ogle Branch

These coves are just south/southeast of the old growth with the 149' Biltmore ash. They are younger on the moderate slopes but become old growth when they get steep. The steep slopes represent almost a monoculture sugar maples. These are not all that great in size so I presume the lower steep slopes were high graded when the moderate slopes were cut. Black birch and yellow buckeye are also present in the sugar stands. Tulips dominate the moderate slopes and they are quite content, rising to solid heights, despite being at 3800'+. Biltmore ash, sugar maple, black birch, basswood, and red maple are common. One lone pine resides at the bottom.


159.7' 157.6' 153.3' 152.2' 151.8' 151.7' 150.2' 150.1' 149.1' 147.9' 147.9' 147.9' 146.7' 146.7' 145.3'

Biltmore ash

131.0' 128.0' 128.0' 121.8' 120.0'

sugar maple

127.7' 123.4' 120.0'

white pine


white basswood


black birch

104.7' 99.2'

red maple


Cane River Gap Flat

It's not quite a flat but some flat areas exist and the maps don't give names to too many places here. This is a moderate slope with a few flat spots at 4,000'. The red hickory is a rarity in the Big Ivy area. Few hickories grow here. I've found just a few red hickories, two of which are old growth. The other is just above the upper part of the Elk Pen Trail.


148.9' 140.0'

red oak


red maple


red hickory

122.1' ~10' cbh



white oak


Re: Walker Cove Big Ivy/Coleman Boundary NC

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:49 am
by bbeduhn
Staires Creek

Most numbers are not remarkable as of yet, but a large tulip was discovered at 13'+ cbh. Shagbark hickories have made their first appearance at Big Ivy.

Shagbark hickory

126.4' 123.0' 120.0'