Tuliptrees in northeastern NY

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morgan
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Tuliptrees in northeastern NY

Post by morgan » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:46 pm

As we know, there are none, apart from occasional trees planted in yards, etc. I never see naturally propagating tulips north of the Hudson Valley adjacent to the Catskills, or east of Syracuse.

I just want to report a grove at Yaddo Mansion in Saratoga Springs, which is propagating extensively there from the 2 planted trees on the grounds, which I guess were planted in the late 1800's, and are around 80 or 100 feet tall.

There are hundreds of saplings and small trees over an area of maybe an acre, in a forest downwind from the two mature trees, and the species is competing favorably with the native trees, under the canopy of tall pines and oaks, looking like it may one day reach and surpass the canopy as they usually do, and spread from there.

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Larry Tucei
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Re: Tuliptrees in northeastern NY

Post by Larry Tucei » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:20 am

Morgan- Sounds like a beautiful stand in the making some day they will overtake the Oaks and Pines. Larry

morgan
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Re: Tuliptrees in northeastern NY

Post by morgan » Sun May 13, 2018 10:29 am

Found a tuliptree in Delmar, NY near Albany. Trunk 4 feet in diameter, close to 100 feet tall.

It seems people have been planting tuliptrees in this area for a while, and from these specimens the species will start propagating. They do well in this climate, they probably just haven't reached here yet naturally for some reason.

It was planted near sidewalk at the corner of Delaware Ave and Lavery.

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JHarkness
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Re: Tuliptrees in northeastern NY

Post by JHarkness » Mon May 14, 2018 10:09 am

My area of eastern New York (northern Dutchess and Columbia Counties) doesn't really seem like tuliptree country, at least the higher elevations in the eastern halves of those counties. I've only ever seen one wild tulip in my town and it's nothing exceptional, probably only around 80-85 feet tall, but that seems to push the limits here, there are a handful of larger planted tulips but the species just don't seem to do well in the wild east of the Hudson and north of Putnam County, the largest groves I've documented in the area are located in Pawling, NY and Copake, NY/South Egremont, MA, the former has several hundred tulips but none seem to exceed the 80 foot threshold and many are badly damaged from snow load, however this is a grove I plan to take measurements from as there are some exceptional maples and hemlocks there and there may be a couple large tulips in the mix. The other grove is located on the state line on the property of the Catamount Ski Area, it's a very odd grove and I believe it may have been started from seeds dropped from a skier, as these tulips are actually present at the higher elevations and not in the protected lowlands, the lowest one is around 1,200 feet and they reach all the way to around 1,650 feet in elevation. They seem to max out around the height I mentioned earlier, but they seem very healthy and adapted to the local climatic conditions, they even seem to be doing a little better than the pines and birches in a few areas. I don't know if they were tulips or not, but in one of the swamps I-87 passes through just north of the Adirondack Park, I remember seeing some massive trees in quite a ways, they could have been cottonwoods but they seemed to be arrow straight and just had the form of a tulip, it's not at all a prime site for tulips (seeing that parts of the swamp are dominated by black and red spruce), but seeing the ones at Catamount, it wouldn't surprise me if there are a few isolated groves of them in colder and higher areas.
"Be not simply good; be good for something." Henry David Thoreau

morgan
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Re: Tuliptrees in northeastern NY

Post by morgan » Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:22 pm

Putnam County is basically devoid of tulips, unless planted by people. But on the Thruway north of there is a huge grove of hundreds of big tuliptrees. Mile marker 83 to 84, look on both sides of the highway. They are the northernmost naturally-occurring tulips I know of in eastern NY.

I measured the girth of the Delmar tulip I mentioned, it's 142 inches. Later I'll measure the height.

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JHarkness
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Re: Tuliptrees in northeastern NY

Post by JHarkness » Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:57 pm

Morgan,

I'm not sure which part of the Thruway you are talking about, if it's south or west of Albany, I'm not familiar with those parts, if it's on I-90 west of Albany, then yes, I think I do know where you're talking about, I have seen some tulips somewhere between Albany and Amsterdam from I-90 before.
"Be not simply good; be good for something." Henry David Thoreau

morgan
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Re: Tuliptrees in northeastern NY

Post by morgan » Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:56 pm

No, it's just south of Kingston. I-87 northbound and southbound, both sides of the highway, look around mile marker 83.0 to 83.5 there are tons of tuliptrees there.
Last edited by morgan on Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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JHarkness
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Re: Tuliptrees in northeastern NY

Post by JHarkness » Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:43 pm

Ah, that explains why I've never seen them, I am hardly on I-87 south of Albany, and I don't think I've ever been on I-87 south of Kingston. I can see why they do well there, low elevation, warm climate and lots of moisture, it's certainly a lot warmer there than here. Actually, the grove at the ski area is roughly 20 miles farther north from there, if they're naturally seeded, which they may well be, that would make them the northernmost known natural grove of tuliptrees in eastern New York, however, I suspect there are some along the low elevation river corridors northeast of Albany, that seems like perfect territory for them.

Joshua
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Erik Danielsen
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Re: Tuliptrees in northeastern NY

Post by Erik Danielsen » Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:17 pm

On the other side of the Hudson, I can confirm tulip being common and vigorous at least up into the Tivoli Bays area, including a 140'+ tree at the Montgomery Place Estate, multiple 120' trees at Bard College, etc. In the lower elevations along the Hudson I wouldn't expect them to peter out anywhere near Kingston- that's prime climate, not an extreme range edge.

morgan
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Re: Tuliptrees in northeastern NY

Post by morgan » Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:34 pm

Tivoli and Bard College are roughly the same latitude as Kingston.

You assume that climate is the limiting factor and there has to be a sudden change of climate to end the range. In the case of tuliptrees, this is obviously not the case since there are planted specimens growing in Albany and Saratoga, the latter readily propagating. The limiting factor is not the climate, but how far north they have thus far spread after the ice age wiped out all vegetation up to roughly 10,000 BC when the ice melted and trees started growing back in. The tuliptrees that survived the ice age must have been very far south of NY, and this is how far they have spread in that time. Tree people use the word "migrate" as if trees can migrate. Well no, but the seeds do!! I have 2 tuliptrees growing in the Adirondacks, same latitude as Saratoga but 1400 feet elevation. In the 12 years since I planted them as 2-foot saplings, one has recently passed a telephone pole in height, around 30 feet. So they can grow much farther north than Kingston, and soon they will.

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