Douglas Fir in NY state

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Erik Danielsen
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Douglas Fir in NY state

Post by Erik Danielsen » Tue May 26, 2015 1:46 pm

In light of discussion regarding the Douglas Fir measured by Tom and Elijah in Rochester and one here in Fredonia by myself, I've become increasingly curious about the performance of Douglas Fir in NY state and elsewhere in the east. In spite of being a tree with obviously significant growth potential in its ideal environment (PNW, Great Britain, New Zealand?) the general pattern I'd agree with Elijah in having observed is that the species rarely exceeds 90' and is outcompeted by white pine and norway spruce. That said, it's not been an active avenue of investigation. I'm not sure that there's much value in the inquiry beyond satisfaction of curiosity but I'd welcome any measurements/observations that might help fill in the answers to a couple questions-

-Are there any sites in the state/region where conditions do favor greater growth for Douglas fir, exceeding the 90-100' range?
-Is this pattern particular to the northeast (including NY) or does it hold over a broader swath of the east?

Aside from the 96.1' specimen at Mount Hope cemetery and the 97.34' specimen at Forest Hill cemetery, I measured my tallest yet today at Chautauqua Institution, at 100.93' tall and 8.33' cbh right behind the historic ampitheater.

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PAwildernessadvocate
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Re: Douglas Fir in NY state

Post by PAwildernessadvocate » Tue May 26, 2015 11:42 pm

Erik Danielsen wrote:I measured my tallest yet today at Chautauqua Institution, at 100.93' tall and 8.33' cbh right behind the historic ampitheater.
Oh interesting! I never noticed that before. I don't go to Chautauqua particularly frequently, but the next time I am there I will make it a point to go see that tree.
"There is no better way to save biodiversity than by preserving habitat, and no better habitat, species for species, than wilderness." --Edward O. Wilson

Joe

Re: Douglas Fir in NY state

Post by Joe » Wed May 27, 2015 4:44 am

And.... has the species ever "escaped" in the Northeast?
Joe

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Lucas
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Re: Douglas Fir in NY state

Post by Lucas » Sat May 30, 2015 11:53 am

Joe wrote:And.... has the species ever "escaped" in the Northeast?
Joe
http://www.forestryforum.com/board/inde ... ic=38924.0

http://pubs.cif-ifc.org/doi/abs/10.5558/tfc57124-3


I wondered about Douglas Fir, too. There is one across the road about 80 feet. You would think trials were done given its value.

As the links above show, at least, one western tree escaped and did ok here.
We travel the Milky way together, trees and men. - John Muir

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Erik Danielsen
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Re: Douglas Fir in NY state

Post by Erik Danielsen » Sun May 31, 2015 11:56 am

Somehow I suspect that Douglas Fir doesn't compete well enough in eastern forest environments to "escape" in that sense. Environments out west where I'm told doug fir has become invasive were previously oak-savannah habitats maintained by regular burning, where doug fir has taken over in the wake of fire suppression. A retired forester I work for knew of a couple doug fir plantations not too far away, so he's going to get in touch with someone who can tell me where they are/if they're still standing. I suspect that timber plantings and ornamental plantings are where almost all of the Doug Fir in NY state will be found.

That's very interesting about the western redcedar in nova scotia! I wonder how they're doing now, if they still stand. The last measurements listed in the link were from 35 years ago. I have a particular fondness for our humble eastern Thuja species and its giant western cousin really captures my imagination, though I have yet to meet one.

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Lucas
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Re: Douglas Fir in NY state

Post by Lucas » Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:33 am

Erik Danielsen wrote:Environments out west where I'm told doug fir has become invasive were previously oak-savannah habitats maintained by regular burning, where doug fir has taken over in the wake of fire suppression.
http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/olympia/silv/p ... n2008a.pdf

Funny you mentioned the OWO savanna issues. I found a bunch of articles on that lately. The link above gives a good overview.

http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/olympia/silv/p ... ne2006.pdf

Also good

file:///E:/aa%20Oaks/Genetic%20and%20Silvicultural%20Foundations%20for%20Management%20-%20Publications.html

Tons more above
We travel the Milky way together, trees and men. - John Muir

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Lucas
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Re: Douglas Fir in NY state

Post by Lucas » Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:37 am

Erik Danielsen wrote: That's very interesting about the western redcedar in nova scotia! I wonder how they're doing now, if they still stand. The last measurements listed in the link were from 35 years ago. I have a particular fondness for our humble eastern Thuja species and its giant western cousin really captures my imagination, though I have yet to meet one.
I called Les to see if he had an update but he was out. He or someone had an article in http://www.rurallife.ca/atlanticforestry/ about them, a few years ago.
We travel the Milky way together, trees and men. - John Muir

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Lucas
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Re: Douglas Fir in NY state

Post by Lucas » Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:07 am

Lucas wrote:
Erik Danielsen wrote: That's very interesting about the western redcedar in nova scotia! I wonder how they're doing now, if they still stand. The last measurements listed in the link were from 35 years ago. I have a particular fondness for our humble eastern Thuja species and its giant western cousin really captures my imagination, though I have yet to meet one.
I called Les to see if he had an update but he was out. He or someone had an article in http://www.rurallife.ca/atlanticforestry/ about them, a few years ago.
Les says he saw them about 5-6 years ago. The biggest are over 24" and 60 feet. The seeded trees are tall and thin likely due to competition.
We travel the Milky way together, trees and men. - John Muir

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