White Pine Growth Rates Newcomb, NY

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ElijahW
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Re: White Pine Growth Rates Newcomb, NY

Post by ElijahW » Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:06 pm

Brian,

It's definitely a tamarack, not the European variety of larch. It's very common in the Adirondacks, and the spruce-like bark makes it easy to tell the difference, even from a distance. This seemed to me a tall example of the species, but I haven't bothered to measure many. Up here, when growing in bogs with balsam fir, black spruce, and white cedar, it normally out-competes everything else, but still is a relatively short tree. When growing with white pine, however, it seems to do much better, as with this tree. In the photo below, the tamarack is to the left of the first emergent white pine on the left.
102' Tamarack
102' Tamarack
I'm sure taller tamaracks are in the northeastern Adirondacks, and most likely will be growing amongst white pines.

Elijah
"There is nothing in the world to equal the forest as nature made it. The finest formal forest, the most magnificent artificially grown woods, cannot compare with the grandeur of primeval woodland." Bob Marshall, Recreational Limitations to Silviculture in the Adirondacks

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Jess Riddle
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Re: White Pine Growth Rates Newcomb, NY

Post by Jess Riddle » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:30 pm

Elijah,

Nice find! The next tallest eastern larch I know of is one I measured in central NY at 91.0'. This was a species we had so little data on that I felt like we didn't really have a grasp on what is tall for the species. Nice to see some numbers coming in from a better quality site.

Jess

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tomhoward
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Re: White Pine Growth Rates Newcomb, NY

Post by tomhoward » Sun Jun 21, 2015 3:40 pm

Elijah,

As far as I know, the 102 ft. Tamarack is the tallest known to NTS. Back in 2010, I measured a planted Tamarack at Root Glen at Hamilton College in Clinton, NY at 101 ft.

These White Pines are amazing, that far north, just under 100 years old, and almost 130 ft. tall. Here in central NY, we haven't found a White Pine as much as 125 ft. tall.

Tom Howard

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ElijahW
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Re: White Pine Growth Rates Newcomb, NY

Post by ElijahW » Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:05 pm

NTS,

I made a visit to the remainder of the SUNY ESF 1916 White Pine plantation today, and I need to make a public apology to the folks originally reporting heights of trees cut from this forest. Apparently, they weren't exaggerating. On the south side of NY 28N, next to the parking area for Goodnow Mountain, the White Pines seem to average around 130', and I measured four over 140', the tallest coming in at 143'. The area that was thinned is much easier to measure than what was left alone, and three of the four 140s grow here. I expect a more thorough search and careful measuring with a tripod will yield a 145' pine, but taller than that is unlikely.

Finding the tall pines was cool, but what really made my day was a Tamarack (larix laricina) between the plantation and the highway. This tree came in at 125', but because of the angle I measured it from, it's probably a foot or two taller. I didn't get a girth, but it's around 7'. I don't know of a taller tree of this species; the Trees Database lists one from Anders Run in PA at 115'.

Elijah
"There is nothing in the world to equal the forest as nature made it. The finest formal forest, the most magnificent artificially grown woods, cannot compare with the grandeur of primeval woodland." Bob Marshall, Recreational Limitations to Silviculture in the Adirondacks

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ElijahW
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Re: White Pine Growth Rates Newcomb, NY

Post by ElijahW » Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:47 pm

NTS,

I believe I found the tallest White Pine in the thinned section, at 146.7'. The section that was not thinned may hold a slightly taller tree, as might also the much larger, posted section.

Elijah
"There is nothing in the world to equal the forest as nature made it. The finest formal forest, the most magnificent artificially grown woods, cannot compare with the grandeur of primeval woodland." Bob Marshall, Recreational Limitations to Silviculture in the Adirondacks

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ElijahW
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Re: White Pine Growth Rates Newcomb, NY

Post by ElijahW » Sun Jul 17, 2016 12:29 am

NTS,

I nailed down the height of the previously measured Tamarack yesterday. Its official dimensions are 129.0' x 6'4" CBH. I found two more tamaracks above 110' nearby , but nowhere near the height of this guy. A couple pictures of the tree and Huntington Forest in general below:
Tallest known Tamarack.  Orange vest for scale.
Tallest known Tamarack. Orange vest for scale.
Tamarack in center
Tamarack in center
Huntington Forest
Huntington Forest
DSC00813.JPG
DSC00816.JPG
Elijah
"There is nothing in the world to equal the forest as nature made it. The finest formal forest, the most magnificent artificially grown woods, cannot compare with the grandeur of primeval woodland." Bob Marshall, Recreational Limitations to Silviculture in the Adirondacks

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Erik Danielsen
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Re: White Pine Growth Rates Newcomb, NY

Post by Erik Danielsen » Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:17 pm

Really fantastic to find an outlier specimen like that. You can almost think of a tree like that as an "event-" there was a period of time before that tree hit its stride when, perhaps, there were no tamaracks outside the 110s anywhere in the area, or anywhere period, and if this tree has its top knocked off or declines with age, we could return for a time to a world where there are again no or very very few above the 110s. Not so with species where the tallest specimen has dozens or hundreds of runners-up within several feet of a matching height.

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ElijahW
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Re: White Pine Growth Rates Newcomb, NY

Post by ElijahW » Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:36 pm

Erik,

I think you're right about the unusual nature of this tree. It's likely about the same age as the planted pines, as it grows right on the edge of the plantation. That would mean an average growth rate of between 1.2 and 1.3' per year for 101 years. I'm excited to see what happens to the pines in the next decade or two. Even if their growth slows a bit, several may make 160' in 15 years. We'll have to wait and see, though.

Elijah
"There is nothing in the world to equal the forest as nature made it. The finest formal forest, the most magnificent artificially grown woods, cannot compare with the grandeur of primeval woodland." Bob Marshall, Recreational Limitations to Silviculture in the Adirondacks

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tomhoward
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Re: White Pine Growth Rates Newcomb, NY

Post by tomhoward » Wed Sep 07, 2016 1:59 pm

NTS,

On the sunny very warm (77 F Long Lake), Sunday Sept. 4, 2016, Elijah Whitcomb and I had an excellent trip to the Adirondacks. Our objective was the tall White Pine plantation managed by SUNY ESF near Newcomb on NY 28N in the central Adirondacks. It is at this site that Elijah measured planted White Pines to over 140 ft., and a Tamarack to a record-breaking 129 ft.

We parked at the lot for the trail to the top of nearby Goodnow Mountain. At one end of the parking lot is a White Pine over 130 ft. tall – it looks shorter. At the other end is a trail into 2nd growth hardwood forest of Yellow Birch, Beech, Red Maple, Sugar Maple, Striped Maple (we would see many Striped Maples in the pine plantation ahead, and many of these Striped Maples are big), Ash, Balsam Fir, Red Spruce. This trail leads into the pine plantation.

We came to the tall White Pines. These magnificent trees were planted in 1916, and I have never seen such young trees so tall. The White Pines rise straight into sky-piercing heights, mighty towering columns in massed ranks. This is one of the most cathedral-like stands I have ever seen. These White Pines are just starting to get older, rough bark. On this warm sun-filled day the air was wondrously fresh and pine-scented. It’s hard to believe that such tall trees are only 100 years old. The highest points of these trees were hard to see due to the density of the canopy. Heights listed here are usually lower than the actual heights, as we could not often see the highest points. All measurements were done with the standard NTS Sine Method.

One of the largest White Pines is 32.9” dbh (8.6’ cbh).
Typical of bigger White Pines – 26.8” dbh (7’ cbh)
Big spreading Striped Maple – 2.8” dbh (0.73’ cbh)

Trees measured:

White Pine
130.5+ (not top)
127.7+ (not top, side branch, nothing higher visible)
144.3+ (not top, tallest tree measured on this outing)
133.6 (slender tree)
133+ (straight up shot from about 3 ft. away from base)
137.8 (slender tree)
130.1 (slender tree)
139.7 (slender tree)
134.9
130.8 (slender tree)
132.8+ (slender tree, not top)
128.4
138.5
Average height of White Pines measured on this outing in this stand (13 trees):
134 ft.

On an earlier outing this summer Elijah measured a White Pine to over 146 ft. in this stand.

Elijah showed me the tallest Tamarack, a double-trunked tree that lifts its light feathery crown high into the White Pine canopy. We tried to duplicate his record 129 ft. measurement, but we were not able to do so, but we did get to over 125 ft. From where we stood we probably could not see the highest point in the dense canopy. It is incredibly tall for a Tamarack.

Tamarack
125.9 (Elijah got 129 ft. earlier this year.)
113.3 (neighboring tree – Elijah got 115 ft. earlier this year.)


Tom Howard

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ElijahW
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Re: White Pine Growth Rates Newcomb, NY

Post by ElijahW » Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:06 pm

NTS,

Today I confirmed a couple more 140' White pines at Huntington. The count now stands at eight:

140.3
141
141.9
143
143.8
144.3
144.4
146.7

I also spotted a nice White spruce on the edge of the plantation and got it to 118.9' x 5'10".

Elijah
"There is nothing in the world to equal the forest as nature made it. The finest formal forest, the most magnificent artificially grown woods, cannot compare with the grandeur of primeval woodland." Bob Marshall, Recreational Limitations to Silviculture in the Adirondacks

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